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Thread: Luxury Tax Thread

  1. #1
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Luxury Tax Thread

    Wanted to start a thread to get everyone's opinions on the issue and suggestions on what the penalty should be to try to keep teams from going over the cap.

    Would be nice to get as many posts from GM's as possible so CP3 has something to go off of if he decides to implement a tax penalty.

  2. #2
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    Should be way more than whats being discussed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3
    I dont think it should be related to points at all...I know that's our only currency so I don't have a suggestion yet, but maybe after a certain threshold is met the team loses their bird rights...I mean it's hard to trade or sign free agents when over the cap so there is that
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  4. #4
    The Franchise
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    Unfortunately, some teams just can't help it, as their players were drafted with awful contracts already attached. Some of them will expire at the end of this season, but there are still a few out there. Also, we're dealing with a simulated free agency here, which means that a team could quite likely end up with cap-eating contracts by accident. A team with cap space could end up over the cap in one sim, stuck with a player he now has no need for, and will have to pay for a mistake not fully his own. Has that been properly considered?

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  5. #5
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    If you want to field a good veteran team you'll be a good ways over the cap in a few years.
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  6. #6
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xist2inspire View Post
    Unfortunately, some teams just can't help it, as their players were drafted with awful contracts already attached. Some of them will expire at the end of this season, but there are still a few out there. Also, we're dealing with a simulated free agency here, which means that a team could quite likely end up with cap-eating contracts by accident. A team with cap space could end up over the cap in one sim, stuck with a player he now has no need for, and will have to pay for a mistake not fully his own. Has that been properly considered?
    This isnt a good exscuse for a number of reasons. 1st of all, all of us are basketball fans and some maybe even did research before drafting and we were aware of the cap stuff, so drafting Shaq or someone of his caliber one should've known of the huge contract. 2nd, most teams are over the cap and still make more moves to put they team higher over the cap because they are aware there isnt no penanlty. And the 2 points stuff is not good enough, as teams will have the guys who has them over the cap which will bring in tons of points. I feel maybe pcks, points and players should be involve in this penanlty set as stages. But this has to sstop.

  7. #7
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! LoCo89's Avatar
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    Picks and players won't be taken away, that's not a good plan. And you're wrong about "knowing how much a player makes" Damon Stoudamire hasn't been all nba or an all star and is making 12+ million. No one would have thought he would be making that and I'm sure there are other guys on bad contracts that aren't all stars
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  8. #8
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Why should their be a penalty? We don't have any influences from bigger or smaller markets. Everything is even. Why penalize those with good teams? Any good team is going to be a bit over the cap right now.

  9. #9
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-Fense View Post
    Why should their be a penalty? We don't have any influences from bigger or smaller markets. Everything is even. Why penalize those with good teams? Any good team is going to be a bit over the cap right now.
    Exactly, everyone has as much right as anyone else to go over the cap.

    And you know what else? I guarantee that at some point there won't be a single team that has never been 10-15 million over the cap.

  10. #10
    CP3 has deceitful eyes ohnosono's Avatar
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    I just don't like the idea of punishing people for actions they made while there was no rule against it.

  11. #11
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    If we were to do anything, which I doubt we will, it would be something like teams 20M over the cap can't claim player points, they can only claim team points, or something like that.

  12. #12
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NolaHornets23 View Post
    I just don't like the idea of punishing people for actions they made while there was no rule against it.
    This as well.

    Also, any argument made that draft position (the original draft) affected things and really hurt some is invalid. BeeBall Reasons had the last pick in the draft and is now a contender.

    Everything is even.

    The salary cap is also ridiculously low considering the contracts being given currently, so I don't see the point in a luxury tax.

    A hard cap on the other hand might not be a bad idea. Say, $80 million? The Spurs, by the far highest paid team in the league, are at $74 million. Still, it could prevent some teams to constantly sign MLE guys every single year. It just wouldn't be all that realistic.

  13. #13
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoCo89 View Post
    Picks and players won't be taken away, that's not a good plan. And you're wrong about "knowing how much a player makes" Damon Stoudamire hasn't been all nba or an all star and is making 12+ million. No one would have thought he would be making that and I'm sure there are other guys on bad contracts that aren't all stars
    Damon was a top 10 pick, and was considered to go higher. So YOU should've atleast known something about his salary. It's a gaame should've known there would be glitches/mistakes.

  14. #14
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    The fact that someone is over the cap and no there wouldnt be any consequences if they go even more over, to the point when they are throwing contracts at anyone because they know there aren't any penalties is what concerns me.

  15. #15
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trell View Post
    The fact that someone is over the cap and no there wouldnt be any consequences if they go even more over, to the point when they are throwing contracts at anyone because they know there aren't any penalties is what concerns me.
    When has that happened?

  16. #16
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    I don't like the idea of penalizing either.

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  17. #17
    For...ev...er... The JNR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trell View Post
    Damon was a top 10 pick, and was considered to go higher. So YOU should've atleast known something about his salary. It's a gaame should've known there would be glitches/mistakes.
    This is a totally ridiculous argument. "You should've known?" How?

    Here's my opinion on the issue: I don't think there should be a big punishment, but I also think that if there's no punishment, there's really no point of a salary cap.

  18. #18
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! LoCo89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trell View Post
    Damon was a top 10 pick, and was considered to go higher. So YOU should've atleast known something about his salary. It's a gaame should've known there would be glitches/mistakes.
    And you should know there's somethings you're just gonna have to live with, like you said, it's a game, there's no penalty built into the game for being over the cap, we're talking about making one up just because.

    Still, nobody knew salaries, no matter what their position was in a draft, top 10 pick doesn't just guarantee you salary. I just thought that you were being ridiculous for calling for people's points, picks, and players. Thats a little much considering we were going in blind to cap hits and just plain stupid. The only thing you lose for being over is money in the NBA, and our form of money is Points. So that would be the only thing that would make sense to 'tax'.

  19. #19
    The Franchise
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trell View Post
    This isnt a good exscuse for a number of reasons. 1st of all, all of us are basketball fans and some maybe even did research before drafting and we were aware of the cap stuff, so drafting Shaq or someone of his caliber one should've known of the huge contract. 2nd, most teams are over the cap and still make more moves to put they team higher over the cap because they are aware there isnt no penanlty. And the 2 points stuff is not good enough, as teams will have the guys who has them over the cap which will bring in tons of points. I feel maybe pcks, points and players should be involve in this penanlty set as stages. But this has to sstop.
    You never answered my point about simulated free agency. And say if you use some of your excellent cap space to land some big names in free agency........and they all turn out to be busts, or you end up with multiple players at the same position, all overpaid. And say that lands you in the same position you are this season, only over the cap for years to come and with little shot at doing anything other than blowing it up. Will you be so vocal then?

    In the real NBA, you have two choices: Stay under the cap or compete. You can't do both for a good length of time. Look at the hole OKC's in with Harden. And there are penalties for going over the cap. Look at the Lakers, the team I think is the reasoning behind the "tax 'em hard!" argument. They may look good now, but a lot of their players are overachieving, and with Shaq & Hill's bloated contracts, they'll have to fill their team with cheap bums and rookies for years to come. This is likely their last year as a serious contender, barring an extremely fruitful (and highly unlikely) offseason. Why do you think I traded Zo? I made that deal, along with trading Penny, to free up cap space for the future. It looks like a smart move now, thanks to Antawn's emergence, but I'm sure most of y'all were snickering at me after those deals, figuring it was a blatant attempt to tank. And guess what? As of now, I'm still over the cap, and will likely have to go over it next season if I want to continue to make strides as a contender. That's just how it is.
    Last edited by Xist2inspire; 08-28-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  20. #20
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    Well **** it, I'll go around slinging contracts at any and every player!!! Calm down first of all, and I just was trying to help or make the league more funner and equal. Anyways IDC anymore, just was throwing out my opinion.

  21. #21
    Jimeert Freedet 4 Prez    Contributor   
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    I like the idea of being $20-25+ you cant claim points... that's kinda cool.

    But honestly, if a team is over salary cap, then the only players they can THROW money at are their own... otherwise they can only offer MLE LLE or vet min to players.
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  22. #22
    Jimeert Freedet 4 Prez    Contributor   
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    Hard cap at like 75-80mil would be nice

  23. #23
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    Sorry if I pissed anyone off from throwing out a OPINION!!!!!!!

  24. #24
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-Fense View Post
    Why should their be a penalty? We don't have any influences from bigger or smaller markets. Everything is even. Why penalize those with good teams? Any good team is going to be a bit over the cap right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    Exactly, everyone has as much right as anyone else to go over the cap.

    And you know what else? I guarantee that at some point there won't be a single team that has never been 10-15 million over the cap.
    I do agree that it seems fair that everyone has the right to go over the cap. I also understand that some teams were stuck with high salary players after the original draft since we didn't know the salaries up front. The reason I think there should be a cap is because the teams that are $10-$30 mill over are the teams with all the talent. They aren't going to trade that talent to a struggling team unless they get all the struggling teams assets back in the trade. Most people think that a team over the cap is limited with trade possibilities, but I think they aren't because they have high salary players that are great trade assets. They can dump off their $15 mill contract player to a mediocre team for their best young assets while staying over the cap and not being penalized for it. In essence, I think it creates a cycle where the teams over can continue to stay over the cap and rebuild with no penalty.
    I also think a strict penalty for being over makes trades more difficult and people will have to really think about if they want to trade for a $20 mill dollar player. The timing would have to be right if they think they can contend for a championship. I think overall a tax penalty lessens the gap between the mediocre/bad teams with the elite teams and it makes it harder to build a contending team.

    Those are just my opinions and I could be way off base. At least we are discussing it tho.
    Last edited by PrepP; 08-28-2012 at 06:34 PM.

  25. #25
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    and how did they acquire that talent?

    They did a good drop drafting talented players? They traded for those players?

    I said before we even drafted that people need to be careful with their moves because "superteams" will be formed. Not to call anyone out, but there have been a number of trades already in two seasons that were extremely lopsided and helped other teams really improve.

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