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Thread: [Official - trade complete] Hornets Trying to Land RFA Lopez from the Suns {merged}

  1. #601
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    I just think that the idea of an exception is getting confused.

    Forget the mid-level exception, the biannual exception, the player exceptions you get for making uneven trades. This is just confusing you.

    Think of the "traded player exception" as the transaction created when you swipe your credit card. Every single time a team over the cap trades a player, a "traded player exception" is the means by which it happens. It is created by doing the trade, you don't need one to do the trade. It is just a set of restrictions you must abide by if you are over the cap, it is the rules of the transaction. And that paragraph I mentioned says that a team under the cap can use these over the cap exceptions if it is useful to them.

    That's how I see it anyway from the FAQ.
    From Q26 again:

    A team can't act like it's under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

    So, I don't think I'm confused, but I think it's confusing.

    We acted like we were under the cap since we did the Anderson deal. Right?

    So we can't use the means that allows to exceed the cap (exception) or any such credits (exception) if we had any.

    I appreciate you going back and forth here.
    __________
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  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    They should. No one should just believe me. No one should just believe anyone. Respectually listen, fact check when you can. Not everyone can all the time, but the better educated we are as fans, the better off we'll be.

    We're the smallest market in the NBA, so we're going to get junk thrown at us. We can't be average. We have to be great fans. We have to be hospitable, fun, passionate, and educated.

    We should be testing each other the right way pretty often.

    They should test like sfernald. Dude had me working and was 100% cool. I do appreciate having to work and any learning that may come as a result, right or wrong on my part. This other guy . . . ugh.
    i appreciate your modesty sir

    #QUAILS MOM

  3. #603
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. West View Post
    Am I the only one who is shocked that X isn't involved in this trade?

    Also, am I the only one that read that Miller would be shipped out, got bummed, and then realized that it was Brad Miller not Darius?
    You are not, and . . . can't help you . . .

  4. #604
    I have to admit I may very well be responsible for the troll.

    Today, over on a Suns board which I won't mention, I read one stupid insulting post too many and lost it. Sort of went off on the lot of them over there. Gave them a lecture. I noticed he came around today right after I did it, so I doubt it was a coincidence.

    Got suspended for my trouble and a stern warning. Have to admit i had wanted to do that for a while. Lol, so sorry about that.

  5. #605
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bojangles837 View Post
    i appreciate your modesty sir
    I can be a `donkey' when someone is that way to me first (or on a bad day?), but overall, I'm about fun and good, informative debate. It takes two sides to talk, and it's not about winning and losing. It's about having the converation end up where the group is better off, even if some people were `right all along.' Whatever. It's got to be done the right way.

    This is happening more and more here.

    I was wrong on the $55m thing. I followed the FAQ. It was wrong. Coon was wrong. I got the answer, explained it here. No biggie. Coon updated the FAQ. It happens. This stuff is tough. Grilling people over it is not necessary. (Grill me over that if you wish).

    Grilling people for not being genuine participants in a discussion is something else entirely.

  6. #606
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    I have to admit I may very well be responsible for the troll.

    Today, over on a Suns board which I won't mention, I read one stupid insulting post too many and lost it. Sort of went off on the lot of them over there. Gave them a lecture. I noticed he came around today right after I did it, so I doubt it was a coincidence.

    Got suspended for my trouble and a stern warning. Have to admit i had wanted to do that for a while. Lol, so sorry about that.
    Ha. Tomorrow (today?) we will have all enjoyed it.

    You're good people in my book.

    People: Give it up to sfernald for taking up for the New Orleans, the Hornets, us, and the other fans. We had his back the whole time!

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    I can be a `donkey' when someone is that way to me first (or on a bad day?), but overall, I'm about fun and good, informative debate. It takes two sides to talk, and it's not about winning and losing. It's about having the converation end up where the group is better off, even if some people were `right all along.' Whatever. It's got to be done the right way.

    This is happening more and more here.

    I was wrong on the $55m thing. I followed the FAQ. It was wrong. Coon was wrong. I got the answer, explained it here. No biggie. Coon updated the FAQ. It happens. This stuff is tough. Grilling people over it is not necessary. (Grill me over that if you wish).

    Grilling people for not being genuine participants in a discussion is something else entirely.
    there is nothing wrong with putting someone in their place when they decide to be ignorant to facts.. coon might as well get his information from you

  8. #608
    All-Star MVP MarcNOLA's Avatar
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    I thought about going to the late show of "Batman - The Drak Knight Returns," but I am now glad I stayed home and read every post on this thread for the last 2 hours. No way Batman could have been more entertaining! So, I have 2 questions ... Did we get Lopez from Phx and did 42 win his fight with the Suns blogger???

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    I still don't see any logic about the deal.

    Would you like an online tutorial?

    Care to address the $2m deal you think Lopez will take as being anything but an endictment of your team?
    NOH out: Miller, Dyson, 2nd, create a TPE
    NOH in: Lopez, Warrick

    PHX out: Lopez, Warrick
    PHX in: Johnson, Miller, 1st

    MIN out: Johnson, 1st
    MIN in: TPE, Dyson, 2nd.

    Makes sense?

  10. #610
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    sfernald . . . was that board Bright Side of the Sun by any chance?

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    From Q26 again:

    A team can't act like it's under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.

    So, I don't think I'm confused, but I think it's confusing.

    We acted like we were under the cap since we did the Anderson deal. Right?

    So we can't use the means that allows to exceed the cap (exception) or any such credits (exception) if we had any.

    I appreciate you going back and forth here.

    "Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions"

    These are all different from the standard "traded player exception" I'm talking about, which is just a set of restrictions for trading players when over the cap. The "traded player exception" is "created" when a team over the cap does a trade. Mid-level, disabled player and bi-annual are used to sign free agents when you over the cap. If you don't have one, you can't sign them (for more than vet minimum or whatever). The trade exceptions they are talking about are when you have like 5M from an uneven trade that you can use to accept a player in trade without giving back ANY salary.

    What I'm talking about is the "traded player exception" which is not a rare commodity. It is something created every time a trade is done by a team over the cap. You don't have to have one. It is just a set of rules you have to abide by to do the trade if you are over the cap. There are not a finite number and you don't hold onto them. You create them by the act of doing the trade.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    sfernald . . . was that board Bright Side of the Sun by any chance?

    No, actually not that one

  13. #613
    All-Star MVP MarcNOLA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    Ha. Tomorrow (today?) we will have all enjoyed it.

    You're good people in my book.

    People: Give it up to sfernald for taking up for the New Orleans, the Hornets, us, and the other fans. We had his back the whole time!
    You go sfernald! I'm sure those Suns fans didn't know what hit them! LOL

  14. #614
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demiurg View Post
    NOH out: Miller, Dyson, 2nd, create a TPE
    NOH in: Lopez, Warrick

    PHX out: Lopez, Warrick
    PHX in: Johnson, Miller, 1st

    MIN out: Johnson, 1st
    MIN in: TPE, Dyson, 2nd.

    Makes sense?
    It won't create a TPE.

    "A team can't act like it's under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents."

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

    First paragraph, partway through.

    We acted like we were under the cap when we send $1.5m Ayon out for $8.7m for Anderson, right? That fits no trade rule, right? Have to do it with cap space, right? Coon said we were capped out and only had the Room and Min exceptions, right?

    So I understand you want to sign Lopez trade Lopez into cap space and Warrick into some TPE, but it does not make sense to me that this would happen given the above information.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post

    They should test like sfernald. Dude had me working and was 100% cool. I do appreciate having to work and any learning that may come as a result, right or wrong on my part. This other guy . . . ugh.

    Whatever, you get crotchety, expect an equal response. No matter what description of this trade you want to use, I actually like it from New Orleans perspective, assuming Lopez isnt getting more than like 12-15 mil over 3 years. Even in the Gordon debates last week I made it very clear that, keeping Gordon or letting him walk, I respected what New Orleans has been doing this offseason. Some posters here are so hostile to an outsiders input that they lash out no matter what is said.

    Like I said, I'd love to keep it cordial, but when there are random attacks such as the "he doesn't want to re-sign with your franchise because yall suck", it invites a response.

    We will see how this all boils down. With David Khan being involved the most likely result is he blows the Kirilenko situation and the entire deal falls through.

  16. #616
    All-Star MVP MarcNOLA's Avatar
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    LATEST BREAKING NEWS! DEAL HUNG UP ON LOPEZ TAKING 3 YR - $15 MIL DEAL

    BARCELONA – The Minnesota Timberwolves are clearing salary-cap space to target free-agent forward Andrei Kirilenko by helping facilitate a three-team trade that would send Phoenix’s Robin Lopez and Hakim Warrick to the New Orleans Hornets, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

    Andrei Kirilenko played in Russia during the NBA's lockout-shortened season. (Reuters)The trade gathered momentum Tuesday night and centered on Lopez agreeing to a three-year, $15 million-plus contract and moving to the Hornets in a sign-and-trade agreement, league sources told Y! Sports.

    The rest of the deal included the Timberwolves sending small forward Wesley Johnson and a lottery-protected first-round draft pick to the Suns, sources said. Brad Miller, who is retiring and has a contract that can be waived before month’s end, and Warrick are also expected to be on the move. Miller’s contract would go to the Suns, and Warrick would possibly move to the Hornets, sources said. New Orleans would also send two future second-round draft picks to Minnesota.

    The teams were still finalizing details, but sources said that Lopez, a restricted free agent, was returning soon from a vacation to take a physical for the Hornets. New Orleans had been working diligently for weeks on acquiring a center to play alongside No. 1 overall pick Anthony Davis, and give Davis some inside support.

    [Also: Adrian Wojnarowski: Carmelo Anthony’s flaws hidden among greatness of Team USA]

    Kirilenko has a buyout in his CSKA of Moscow contract that allows him to return to the NBA. He ruled out the Brooklyn Nets and Russian billionaire owner Mikhail Prokhorov on Tuesday because the Nets simply couldn’t pay him beyond the veteran’s minimum of $1.2 million, sources said. Kirilenko has been searching for a deal that would pay him in the vicinity of $8 million annually, and Minnesota could have the cap space to do so.

    Minnesota is signing another Russian, point guard Alexey Shved, to a free-agent contract. The T’wolves signed Portland restricted free agent Nicolas Batum to a $45 million offer sheet, but the Trail Blazers matched the money to retain him.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    It won't create a TPE.

    "A team can't act like it's under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents."

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

    First paragraph, partway through.

    We acted like we were under the cap when we send $1.5m Ayon out for $8.7m for Anderson, right? That fits no trade rule, right? Have to do it with cap space, right? Coon said we were capped out and only had the Room and Min exceptions, right?

    So I understand you want to sign Lopez trade Lopez into cap space and Warrick into some TPE, but it does not make sense to me that this would happen given the above information.
    No, you trade Miller and Dyson for Lopez and then create a TPE with your cap space to absorb Warick's contract.

  18. #618
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    "Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions"

    These are all different from the standard "traded player exception" I'm talking about, which is just a set of restrictions for trading players when over the cap. The "traded player exception" is "created" when a team over the cap does a trade. Mid-level, disabled player and bi-annual are used to sign free agents when you over the cap. If you don't have one, you can't sign them (for more than vet minimum or whatever). The trade exceptions they are talking about are when you have like 5M from an uneven trade that you can use to accept a player in trade without giving back ANY salary.

    What I'm talking about is the "traded player exception" which is not a rare commodity. It is something created every time a trade is done by a team over the cap. You don't have to have one. It is just a set of rules you have to abide by to do the trade if you are over the cap. There are not a finite number and you don't hold onto them. You create them by the act of doing the trade.
    If we do not lose that ability, then I'm sure all you are saying is right.

    I've looked through the CBA FAQ hoping around from keyword to keyword. It may be late, but I keep reading it the same way as I've read it. I don't see anything that tells me I can exceed the cap from our current position. If I'm confused or blinded by my skepticism and passages that allude to the other case, then I apologize to all and thank you.

    At the moment, we have no real room, and under $1m if we ignore the roster charge, so if we send Miller out at $5, and we can add in Dyson (there are rules about this too), then we can take back like $8m-$9m. According to Woj,

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--th...kirilenko.html

    three-year, $15 million-plus contract

    For Lopez fits into this with Warrick's expiring coming to us.

    So, it adds up if we have that mechanism. I'd love for the deal to happen just so I could see for sure that this is the case. We've not been under the cap since I've followed the business-side closely, and I've not followed other teams nearly as much.

    Again, if it works out this way, thanks for pushing back.

    Screw the other guy who can't explain anything, however.

  19. #619
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Whatever, you get crotchety, expect an equal response. No matter what description of this trade you want to use, I actually like it from New Orleans perspective, assuming Lopez isnt getting more than like 12-15 mil over 3 years. Even in the Gordon debates last week I made it very clear that, keeping Gordon or letting him walk, I respected what New Orleans has been doing this offseason. Some posters here are so hostile to an outsiders input that they lash out no matter what is said.

    Like I said, I'd love to keep it cordial, but when there are random attacks such as the "he doesn't want to re-sign with your franchise because yall suck", it invites a response.

    We will see how this all boils down. With David Khan being involved the most likely result is he blows the Kirilenko situation and the entire deal falls through.
    You started it that way, and I really don't care. You are useless.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    You started it that way, and I really don't care. You are useless.
    lol, whatever. Then by me not agreeing that the Suns were screwing themselves you viewed it as some sort of hostile attack. I gave Lopez a kinder review than you'll see almost any Suns fan give. Warrick, as you should know, is trash. And if you guys got Lopez for 3 years @ 5 mil a year (like the above article states), and the rest of the terms are as written, then I think its a good deal for you...

    And (since it appears we are still being snarky)...

    Neaner, neaner, neaner, I was right, you were wrong.

  21. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcNOLA View Post
    LATEST BREAKING NEWS! DEAL HUNG UP ON LOPEZ TAKING 3 YR - $15 MIL DEAL

    BARCELONA – The Minnesota Timberwolves are clearing salary-cap space to target free-agent forward Andrei Kirilenko by helping facilitate a three-team trade that would send Phoenix’s Robin Lopez and Hakim Warrick to the New Orleans Hornets, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

    Andrei Kirilenko played in Russia during the NBA's lockout-shortened season. (Reuters)The trade gathered momentum Tuesday night and centered on Lopez agreeing to a three-year, $15 million-plus contract and moving to the Hornets in a sign-and-trade agreement, league sources told Y! Sports.

    The rest of the deal included the Timberwolves sending small forward Wesley Johnson and a lottery-protected first-round draft pick to the Suns, sources said. Brad Miller, who is retiring and has a contract that can be waived before month’s end, and Warrick are also expected to be on the move. Miller’s contract would go to the Suns, and Warrick would possibly move to the Hornets, sources said. New Orleans would also send two future second-round draft picks to Minnesota.

    The teams were still finalizing details, but sources said that Lopez, a restricted free agent, was returning soon from a vacation to take a physical for the Hornets. New Orleans had been working diligently for weeks on acquiring a center to play alongside No. 1 overall pick Anthony Davis, and give Davis some inside support.

    [Also: Adrian Wojnarowski: Carmelo Anthony’s flaws hidden among greatness of Team USA]

    Kirilenko has a buyout in his CSKA of Moscow contract that allows him to return to the NBA. He ruled out the Brooklyn Nets and Russian billionaire owner Mikhail Prokhorov on Tuesday because the Nets simply couldn’t pay him beyond the veteran’s minimum of $1.2 million, sources said. Kirilenko has been searching for a deal that would pay him in the vicinity of $8 million annually, and Minnesota could have the cap space to do so.

    Minnesota is signing another Russian, point guard Alexey Shved, to a free-agent contract. The T’wolves signed Portland restricted free agent Nicolas Batum to a $45 million offer sheet, but the Trail Blazers matched the money to retain him.
    Two 2nd round picks and Brad Miller's contract for a young big(who has only scratched the surface as a player) and a very tradeable expiring contract. I absolutely love it. I love his contract. 3 years is the perfect amount of time to evaluate him. If he shows nothing in his second year, he essentially becomes an expiring asset.

  22. #622
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! wuggie's Avatar
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    Wow, Demps is good lol

    "I want ONLY 9 eyebrows in the starting lineup for the Hornets next year." I typed this before the draft lottery

  23. #623
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    lol, whatever. Then by me not agreeing that the Suns were screwing themselves you viewed it as some sort of hostile attack. I gave Lopez a kinder review than you'll see almost any Suns fan give. Warrick, as you should know, is trash. And if you guys got Lopez for 3 years @ 5 mil a year (like the above article states), and the rest of the terms are as written, then I think its a good deal for you...

    And (since it appears we are still being snarky)...

    Neaner, neaner, neaner, I was right, you were wrong.
    Not quite. You were wrong from the get-go. And still useless.

    We'll see how it plays out. Unlike sfernald, you have absolutely zero aptitude.

  24. #624
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! LoCo89's Avatar
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    No freakin way... lol alright next thing is locking up Dell and Monty lol
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  25. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    Not quite. You were wrong from the get-go. And still useless.

    We'll see how it plays out. Unlike sfernald, you have absolutely zero aptitude.

    Its okay, you can wait to apologize until its official. It will give you some time to deal with the bitterness.

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