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Thread: Best Possible S&T for Gordon?/Gordon trade possibilities {merged}

  1. #251
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    58 million for 4 seasons is nothing like what Cp3 is worth...

    And I dont think Gordon is worth even that much. That your own team didnt think Gordon is worth a max... but some of you Hornet fans expect to get a haul similar to the Cp3 trade shows that your own front office values him less than their fans do.
    It could easily be said that your fanbase (the ones proposing the trades) could easily view Gordon as less than what your front office does (the ones actually doing the trading) which is what is enticing us to ask for a lot. Considering that we've offered him something near the max and have been persistent that we are willing to pay him the max through matching, it's a little tough to say Demps doesn't believe Gordon is worth the max.

    Regardless, this isn't quite the CP3 situation. CP3 was going to be gone in a year and there was nothing we could do about it. We didn't really have much leverage because there were only certain places he would be content with going to, so a lot of options were crossed out.

    Gordon on the other hand will be forced to play at least 3 years which gives time to fix the situation (not the big point, but I do believe Gordon can be swayed), but also gives time to find better assets than Kendall Marshall (who with Rivers is an awful pairing defensively) and maybe a later lottery pick.

    Gordon's too big of an asset to just let walk away for some mediocre asset that might not even be better than what we have currently, and agreeing to a lowball Phoenix offer would clearly be shortsighted and giving into the demands of a RFA, which would be stupid. The Hornets hold all the leverage here whether you want to believe it or not.

  2. #252
    Starter DTBHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    No... he isnt, and especially not when he is currently a restricted free agent who just missed 90% of the previous season with injuries.

    You guys appear to think Gordon is worth what CP3 was... and he isnt even worth half that.
    Honestly if you don't want the guy how about you go beg and plead on your own forum that they don't sign him and hope your owner believes in you more than the people he is paying. No one will take crap and bad contracts, gtf

  3. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-Fense View Post
    It could easily be said that your fanbase (the ones proposing the trades) could easily view Gordon as less than what your front office does (the ones actually doing the trading) which is what is enticing us to ask for a lot. Considering that we've offered him something near the max and have been persistent that we are willing to pay him the max through matching, it's a little tough to say Demps doesn't believe Gordon is worth the max.

    Regardless, this isn't quite the CP3 situation. CP3 was going to be gone in a year and there was nothing we could do about it. We didn't really have much leverage because there were only certain places he would be content with going to, so a lot of options were crossed out.

    Gordon on the other hand will be forced to play at least 3 years which gives time to fix the situation (not the big point, but I do believe Gordon can be swayed), but also gives time to find better assets than Kendall Marshall (who with Rivers is an awful pairing defensively) and maybe a later lottery pick.

    Gordon's too big of an asset to just let walk away for some mediocre asset that might not even be better than what we have currently, and agreeing to a lowball Phoenix offer would clearly be shortsighted and giving into the demands of a RFA, which would be stupid. The Hornets hold all the leverage here whether you want to believe it or not.
    In this situation... 2 firsts and a recent lotto pick is not a low-ball offer. Thats what needs to sink in. When teams sign and trades RFAs they typically get nothing close to that level of compensation. The level that some fans on this board think the hornets deserve (Gortat, Marshall and 2 unprotected picks) is completely unheard of EVER when a team is losing a RFA in a sign and trade. What I am telling you is the most you should expect... is a haul given the circumstances and more than what I think the Suns should offer.

    The Suns already put their necks out by offering Gordon an overpaying contract. To expect them to also give up MORE than he is worth in trade... despite being a free agent, is something that will not ever, ever, ever happen. I unequivocally guarantee that if Gordon is traded it will be for NOTHING like the high amounts some here are expecting.

    If I was in the Hornets shoes I would do exactly what you said. Say "Screw it, we arnt going anywhere for a few years anyway, tough it out with Gordon on this bad deal, if anything just to save face from the CP3 trade". But if the Hornets do decide Gordon is being too much of a ****** in the media and decide to trade then it will be, at best, on a level similar to what I laid out.

  4. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by nolaslim213 View Post
    Stupid management. Same reason they offered EJ the max. There is a reason why Phoenix always sucks.
    Phx always sucks?! You just lost all you BB credibility in my book. I know we haven't won a title but to say that "Phx always sucks" is plain idiotic.
    Last edited by ray ray; 07-08-2012 at 02:06 AM.

  5. #255
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    In this situation... 2 firsts and a recent lotto pick is not a low-ball offer. Thats what needs to sink in. When teams sign and trades RFAs they typically get nothing close to that level of compensation. The level that some fans on this board think the hornets deserve (Gortat, Marshall and 2 unprotected picks) is completely unheard of EVER when a team is losing a RFA in a sign and trade. What I am telling you is the most you should expect... is a haul given the circumstances and more than what I think the Suns should offer.

    The Suns already put their necks out by offering Gordon an overpaying contract. To expect them to also give up MORE than he is worth in trade... despite being a free agent, is something that will not ever, ever, ever happen. I unequivocally guarantee that if Gordon is traded it will be for NOTHING like the high amounts some here are expecting.

    If I was in the Hornets shoes I would do exactly what you said. Say "Screw it, we arnt going anywhere for a few years anyway, tough it out with Gordon on this bad deal, if anything just to save face from the CP3 trade". But if the Hornets do decide Gordon is being too much of a ****** in the media and decide to trade then it will be, at best, on a level similar to what I laid out.
    Maybe I'd think more of Marshall if I thought he could fit well next to Rivers.. I just don't see him ever being able to be kept on the floor long alongside Rivers, so I have a hard time selling myself on him for us. I think there's better out there, or there will be down the line.

    I agree the Suns shouldn't give up too much for Gordon. You guys would be a borderline playoff team again and if you don't have many draft picks, it'll be pretty hard to really improve and be anything more than a lower seeded playoff team (just my opinion, I could be wrong).

    The thing with the latest Gordon interview was that he originally didn't want to even talk about free agency, so it's not like he's going out of his way to bash the Hornets. He just seems really disrespected and honestly 3 years of being the highest scoring and highest paid player of a franchise should quiet him down. If his ego becomes a problem, then just ship him out when a good offer comes around. A team will get desperate eventually and take him and give up some assets.

    The Hornets are just giving up too much leverage and control if they agree to a sign and trade or let Gordon walk. Too many other options out there to settle for a sign and trade with just one team and he's too good to just let walk.

    I think it's most likely he's matched and we just make the best of things unless Phoenix is willing to really go all out for him, which would not be smart.

  6. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by bojangles837 View Post
    thats totally fair
    lol

    The keep Gordon. All I can say is that you'll have him for three years then he'll leave for nothing.

    Eric Gordon's contract with the Suns will have ; 1) a player option on his third year. 2) a trade clause .. He can only be traded with his approval. 3) a backloaded contract right about the time ARivers & ADavis.

  7. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-Fense View Post
    Maybe I'd think more of Marshall if I thought he could fit well next to Rivers.. I just don't see him ever being able to be kept on the floor long alongside Rivers, so I have a hard time selling myself on him for us. I think there's better out there, or there will be down the line.

    I agree the Suns shouldn't give up too much for Gordon. You guys would be a borderline playoff team again and if you don't have many draft picks, it'll be pretty hard to really improve and be anything more than a lower seeded playoff team (just my opinion, I could be wrong).

    The thing with the latest Gordon interview was that he originally didn't want to even talk about free agency, so it's not like he's going out of his way to bash the Hornets. He just seems really disrespected and honestly 3 years of being the highest scoring and highest paid player of a franchise should quiet him down. If his ego becomes a problem, then just ship him out when a good offer comes around. A team will get desperate eventually and take him and give up some assets.

    The Hornets are just giving up too much leverage and control if they agree to a sign and trade or let Gordon walk. Too many other options out there to settle for a sign and trade with just one team and he's too good to just let walk.

    I think it's most likely he's matched and we just make the best of things unless Phoenix is willing to really go all out for him, which would not be smart.
    I agree with all this, except that I dont think that its a lock that there will be better down the line. If Gordon does not become significantly more durable then he will be untradable on that contract. Not only will New Orleans be unable to get assets for him, but they'd have to surrender assets just to get rid of him (obviously, Suns would potentially be in the same boat if they got him). So its still a big risk for the Hornets to take, but given their current cap situation and phase of their rebuild, its a risk they can probably afford.

  8. #258
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    I agree with all this, except that I dont think that its a lock that there will be better down the line. If Gordon does not become significantly more durable then he will be untradable on that contract. Not only will New Orleans be unable to get assets for him, but they'd have to surrender assets just to get rid of him (obviously, Suns would potentially be in the same boat if they got him). So its still a big risk for the Hornets to take, but given their current cap situation and phase of their rebuild, its a risk they can probably afford.
    Well, maybe not a lock for better overall, but I think there's a lock for a better fit being found eventually. Marshall just wouldn't be a good fit for us with Rivers at SG. But Joe Johnson was just traded.. some team will be desperate enough to take him considering his age and talent, despite any injury problems. Two teams offered him max contracts this off season after only playing 9 games in one year.. his talent is just too big to be viewed as untradable.

    Right now we just need to get all the assets as possible, and losing Gordon would be losing a big asset.

    I just want the 11th to get here /:

  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by HalfBreed View Post
    Let's get this correc!
    you guys appear to think differently, aren't y'all the team that offered him damn near 60 mill for 4 seasons? We was hoping no team will be ducks and offer him that much, Gordon will be a Hornet so he and the Suns can just be mad.
    58 mil for 4 seasons for Gordon is overpaying and the Suns' front office knows it. But that's the only way you can "steal" a restricted free agent in the NBA.

  10. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by ryan2709 View Post
    Challenge accepted, in no particular order

    Paul
    Williams
    Rondo
    Nash
    Westbrook
    Wall
    Parker
    Curry
    Lawson
    Rubio
    Irving
    Rose
    Jennings
    Dragic
    Holiday/Kidd/Lin - to be fair he probably fits in this group but that's 14 better.
    How the hell is John Wall, Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio, Jennings, Dragic all better?!

    Did you not see Lowry play before he got injured? And by placing him in the same category as Holliday/Kidd/Lin you just lost all credibility. Lowry is way better than them.

    That's like comparing Anthony Davis and Arnett Moultrie.

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRox View Post
    How the hell is John Wall, Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio, Jennings, Dragic all better?!

    Did you not see Lowry play before he got injured? And by placing him in the same category as Holliday/Kidd/Lin you just lost all credibility. Lowry is way better than them.

    That's like comparing Anthony Davis and Arnett Moultrie.
    John Wall, Jennings, Lawson, Dragic (as a starter), Lin(before being injured, since you used that on Lowry) all put up better stats.

    Holiday put up slightly worse stats but they were very close/comparable.

    And ask anyone if they would rather the far better passer in Rubio or Lowry?

    Not everything is statistics I will give you that, but saying Lowry is anything better than a top 15 point guard is reaching.
    Last edited by RyanM; 07-08-2012 at 03:52 AM.
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  12. #262
    This is all so LOLWORTHY!
    To clear things up for you guys, this is what will happen.
    Suns will try for a sign&trade and offer a couple picks and marshall. NO will say "Nahhh, we want more"
    Suns will say "nope".
    EG will then sign offer sheet.
    NO will match.
    EG will play out his contract, NO will be on the rise with Davis coming into his own in a few years.
    EG will be UFA.
    NO lose EG for nothing.
    Anyone who is anyone is fully aware that the only reason EG wants out is because he is scared the football team is gonna put a bounty on him.
    Have fun ladies.

    WHAT'S YA BEEF!?

    Edit: For those who think it was poor management to offer EG the max...what's wrong with forcing a max deal on a fellow rebuilding conference team?
    Last edited by lolworthy; 07-08-2012 at 05:15 AM.

  13. #263
    Vote Voodoo! Contributor Unknown Poster's Avatar
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    Is it the 11th yet? And here I thought some of the new Hornets fan posters were bad... I'll never understand why people bother to register to fight on a forum for a couple of days over some topic of limited/perishable relevance. Give it a rest and go dawdle on your own team's forums where everyone will agree a second round draft choice plus some overpaid veteran is more than enough trade value for Gordon.
    "Hornets means nothing." - Tom Benson

  14. #264
    Witch is dead - Now hiring thefuture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown Poster View Post
    Is it the 11th yet? And here I thought some of the new Hornets fan posters were bad... I'll never understand why people bother to register to fight on a forum for a couple of days over some topic of limited/perishable relevance. Give it a rest and go dawdle on your own team's forums where everyone will agree a second round draft choice plus some overpaid veteran is more than enough trade value for Gordon.
    Because they like to think that they are special and that everyone is intrested in their opinions


  15. #265
    The Franchise Spaniard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray ray View Post
    lol

    The keep Gordon. All I can say is that you'll have him for three years then he'll leave for nothing.

    Eric Gordon's contract with the Suns will have ; 1) a player option on his third year. 2) a trade clause .. He can only be traded with his approval. 3) a backloaded contract right about the time ARivers & ADavis.
    lol, gotta love people that tell you what your team should do and go on to prove they have no idea what they are talking about.

    #1) Gordon's deal from the Suns will have a player option on the fourth year. His deal MUST be at least 3 years by rule.

    #2) He can't have a no trade provision in his deal. He will have a right of refusal in the first year if the Hornets match, and then a right of refusal in the last year for a whole different reason. But his contract can not have a no trade clause.

    #3) They can not back load a maximum deal. It is, in words, a MAXIMUM deal. Aka, the maximum he can make each season. This isn't the NHL.

    #4) Don't try to tell us what we should do. We have it covered.

  16. #266
    No White Flags Soundwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    lol, gotta love people that tell you what your team should do and go on to prove they have no idea what they are talking about.

    #1) Gordon's deal from the Suns will have a player option on the fourth year. His deal MUST be at least 3 years by rule.

    #2) He can't have a no trade provision in his deal. He will have a right of refusal in the first year if the Hornets match, and then a right of refusal in the last year for a whole different reason. But his contract can not have a no trade clause.

    #3) They can not back load a maximum deal. It is, in words, a MAXIMUM deal. Aka, the maximum he can make each season. This isn't the NHL.

    #4) Don't try to tell us what we should do. We have it covered.
    1000% agreed with everything here except for the very last sentence. Starting to doubt that part a bit.

    I guess I'm not sure on who "we" are. If it means our regular posters, I don't think we would all agree that 2+2=4 right now.

  17. #267
    Band of Skulls & Neon Trees ramsters60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
    1000% agreed with everything here except for the very last sentence. Starting to doubt that part a bit.

    I guess I'm not sure on who "we" are. If it means our regular posters, I don't think we would all agree that 2+2=4 right now.
    doubt if he means "us"...
    "we might make dollars, but we don't necessarily make sense"

    "always be sincere....whether you mean it or not"

  18. #268
    The Franchise Spaniard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
    1000% agreed with everything here except for the very last sentence. Starting to doubt that part a bit.

    I guess I'm not sure on who "we" are. If it means our regular posters, I don't think we would all agree that 2+2=4 right now.
    Ha, so true. Unfortunately, I crossed the line of calling the Hornets "we". And fortunately, the true "us" don't have a say in this either way.

    To clairify:

    "Then keep Gordon then, he'll leave blah blah sky is green"

    Response:

    Don't tell us(fans and Hornets) what we(Hornets) should do. We(Hornets) have it covered. For so many so obvious reasons.

  19. #269
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan2709 View Post
    John Wall, Jennings, Lawson, Dragic (as a starter), Lin(before being injured, since you used that on Lowry) all put up better stats.

    Holiday put up slightly worse stats but they were very close/comparable.

    And ask anyone if they would rather the far better passer in Rubio or Lowry?

    Not everything is statistics I will give you that, but saying Lowry is anything better than a top 15 point guard is reaching.
    This is a terrible post. Not sure what stats you're reading but a healthy Lowry is better than those guys.

    Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams

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  20. #270
    King of Optimism!! Pilot172000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray ray View Post
    Phx always sucks?! You just lost all you BB credibility in my book. I know we haven't won a title but to say that "Phx always sucks" is plain idiotic.
    Nope he is right, you guys suck. And I beginning to think it's trickled down to the fans also. All these PHX fans cominng over here trying to convince us that the player we planned to build our franchise isn't worth anything and that we should just give him away is pretty comical in my book. Dell Demps should match and play him a season before fading him off to the highest bidder next season.

  21. #271
    The Franchise Spaniard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornets78 View Post
    This is a terrible post. Not sure what stats you're reading but a healthy Lowry is better than those guys.
    I would be curious on your thoughts of throwing Ty Lawson in that group. A guy who for his three year career has averaged about 50% from the field. I don't think there is any question Lawson is better.

    I find it interesting that even a Rockets fan is jumping on the Lowry is better than Dragic bandwagon considering the Rockets themselves seemed to want Dragic(which started most of this mess that lead to Lowery being traded in the first place). And if we're talking stats, Dragic was better than Lowry when he took over.

    Talking stats and Rubio is difficult considering this was his first season, a shortened season, one that he got hurt, and one that he started on the bench. But I would think any basketball fan can see that Ricky Rubio is an exceptional basketball player that would have to be placed well above Lowry. Personally, I don't see how that's debateable, but if people want to argue about it, go for it.

    Lowry is a very good PG. He's not top ten. 15ish is certainly fair and nothing to be upset about. Last time I checked that is very good, and apparently worth a lottery pick.

  22. #272
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    I would be curious on your thoughts of throwing Ty Lawson in that group. A guy who for his three year career has averaged about 50% from the field. I don't think there is any question Lawson is better.

    I find it interesting that even a Rockets fan is jumping on the Lowry is better than Dragic bandwagon considering the Rockets themselves seemed to want Dragic(which started most of this mess that lead to Lowery being traded in the first place). And if we're talking stats, Dragic was better than Lowry when he took over.

    Talking stats and Rubio is difficult considering this was his first season, a shortened season, one that he got hurt, and one that he started on the bench. But I would think any basketball fan can see that Ricky Rubio is an exceptional basketball player that would have to be placed well above Lowry. Personally, I don't see how that's debateable, but if people want to argue about it, go for it.

    Lowry is a very good PG. He's not top ten. 15ish is certainly fair and nothing to be upset about. Last time I checked that is very good, and apparently worth a lottery pick.
    I didn't mean Lawson. I would take him over Lowry for sure, but saying that some of the other guys were better than Lowry is foolish when Lowry was having an All-Star caliber season this past year before his injuries. I do think he will become more injury prone in the future due to his body type, but right now he's clearly a top 15 PG.

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornets78 View Post
    I didn't mean Lawson. I would take him over Lowry for sure, but saying that some of the other guys were better than Lowry is foolish when Lowry was having an All-Star caliber season this past year before his injuries. I do think he will become more injury prone in the future due to his body type, but right now he's clearly a top 15 PG.
    Fair enough. Lawson was the most glaring to me. Dragic and Rubio or going to be more opinion based on small sample sizes.

  24. #274
    Starter DTBHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray ray View Post
    lol

    The keep Gordon. All I can say is that you'll have him for three years then he'll leave for nothing.

    Eric Gordon's contract with the Suns will have ; 1) a player option on his third year. 2) a trade clause .. He can only be traded with his approval. 3) a backloaded contract right about the time ARivers & ADavis.
    If its a four year deal Davis and rivers go into a contract year at the same time as he apparently leaves us hero

  25. #275
    The Franchise Contributor GeauxPelicans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRox View Post
    Your kidding right? Motiejunas (that's how you spell his name) is not going anywhere. We have been waiting for a year for him to come and be the face of our franchise. Think we're trading him for a guy who watches more games in a suit than he plays in? Hell nah!

    Lamb was probably the best SG in the draft and we got a HUGE steal with him. We even traded up to get him and he's been compared to Reggie Miller...you honestly think we're gonna let him go soon? That's cute.

    We gave up Kyle Lowry who is arguably a top 8 PG in this league to get Toronto's 1st rd pick. No way in hell we give that up for Eric "glass" Gordon.

    But I can see White/Jones/Dooling/lottery protected 1st for Gordon....maybe we throw in Morris too but idk if Morey will do that for such an injury prone tweener guard...trust me we've had our share of injuries the past few years no need to add to that

    Another delusional Rockets fan, Gordon would be the face of your franchise and we aren't gonna accept a bunch of scrubs for a top 5 (at worst) SG (when healthy). The Hornets will match his Suns offer and he'll shut his mouth and play ball and keep everything g behind the scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolworthy View Post
    This whole thread is lol-worthy. You guys do realize that as soon as Gordon signs the offer sheet he can't be sign and traded at all never mind to the Rockets. On top of that, unless Gordon changes his mind and rejects the offer sheet from the Suns, NO can only negotiate with the Suns for a sign and trade.
    You aren't going to fleece the Suns by the way, so asking for Gortat, Marshall, Morris, unprotected picks ain't gonna fly. It will be at MOST Marshall(or Morris), 2 lotto protected 1st's. When the Suns S&T Joe Johnson it was for Diaw, 2 picks. If you ask for the world the Suns will say "No thanks, have fun building around your disgruntled star who does not want to be there".
    Just because Phoenix got fleeced, doesn't mean the Hornets will. I doubt they were in as good of a position as the Hornets are in now. The Hornets have a ridiculous amount of capspace next summer, even if they match Gordon and they can afford to match no matter how disgruntled he is. The Hornets aren't gonna let an asset like Gordon walk for nothing, and damn sure won't trade him for a bunch of scrubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcsunsfan View Post
    The point here is that Gordon is going to a Hornet or a Sun next year and that will be for a max contract. I do believe the Suns would do a minimal s&t. Warrick, a resigned Shannon Brown, and the 2013 Laker pick would probably do it. If not, Gordon will be an unhappy Hornet. I am sure he will get over it.


    You really have no clue. Like I said above, just because you are still upset the Hawks raped y'all and stole Joe Johnson for nothing doesn't mean the Hornets will get raped also. If that's the best Phoenix offers, we match, and he either gets over all the bull****, or he plays for a year and we trade him for a good return. You are delusional if u think a young guy as talented as Gordon is with 3 years remaining on his contract wouldn't return much. Any team in the league would trade for a player of his caliber with 3 years remaining on his deal and that's not even arguable. The only thing that would de rail it would be another injury filled year and the Hornets are in a position to take that gamble.


    Quote Originally Posted by ray ray View Post
    lol

    The keep Gordon. All I can say is that you'll have him for three years then he'll leave for nothing.

    Eric Gordon's contract with the Suns will have ; 1) a player option on his third year. 2) a trade clause .. He can only be traded with his approval. 3) a backloaded contract right about the time ARivers & ADavis.
    You sir, have no clue what you are talking about, so I'm not even gonna bother telling you how stupid your comments are but I will teach you how max contracts work. You can't backload a max contract. It's a small increase (4.5 or 7.5 with Bird Rights) every year, so please go back to your Suns board where u and phrazbit can fantasize about trading us the Lakers 1st and Shannon Brown for Gordon. Anybody who says we will have him for three years and let him walk is clearly an idiot.

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