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Trolls are out in full force these days huh?
We are all wearing our respective tinted shades. From behind the creole blue ones, the people wearing orange glasses are ridiculous. The same goes from them.
All we can do is wait until the 11th-14th and see what happens. In any case, we probably won't be seeing the orange glasses around here after that.
Enjoy your stay, Suns fans. There are drinks in the back and some jambalaya in the corner. Don't rock the boat too much, though, because you don't have home field advantage here.
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Something needs to sink in to those who are claiming I am "fantasizing about getting Gordon for beans". I dont want Gordon on the Suns. I wouldnt want the Hornets to even let the Suns take him outright with no trade.
I am just informing you guys that IF a trade takes place what the likely conditions would be. Because the haul some of you are expecting is unprecedented in NBA history for a player in this situation.
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And what were telling you is what it would take for us to let him go. He's highly valuable to this franchise and it's going to take an unprecedented trade to pry him from our Kung fu death grip.Originally Posted by phrazbit
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Not to mention all the assets on your team other than your picks are terrible. We're not taking cents On the dollar. We don't have to. The suns or Gordon has no leverage.
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Give me some examples of players other than Joe Johnson please. The only reason y'all got abused so badly was because Sarver is an idiot right? There's absolutely no reason to let an asset as good as Gordon (or in you guys case JJ) get traded for such crap. The Suns should of done what the Hornets will do, which is match, try to talk him into shutting his mouth and just play basketball. I see 2 possible outcomes here:
1)He grows up and realizes how retarded his comments made him look during the summer and plays up to his potential. Davis and Rivers meet their potential and they all grow together as a team and the Hornets become contenders. If this happens, that means Gordon has been able to actually stay on the court and avoid injury because they won't become contenders any other way. If he's able to play roughly 85-90% of his games over the 4 years of this contract the Hornets will probably have the top SG in the league (or at worst top 3) and since he has avoided his past injuries, he'd have to turn down ALOT of guaranteed $$$ from the Hornets for a shorter and smaller max deal from Phoenix, Indiana, etc.
2)Demps doesn't feel like dealing with a malcontent, immature, max player. They let him play here for one year, and then they put him on the block with 3 years remaining on his contract. Any team in the league would trade for him with three years left on his deal thinking they can convince him to be happy there and the Hornets would get a great return for him. Unless, he has another injury filled year and then the return wouldn't be great, but it also wouldn't b worse than what you and that Houston can claim we can get now, so why wouldn't Demps gamble?
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So why again do you come to a Hornets board to try and convince us of this? Nowhere on a Suns board to go?
Unfortunately what you (the fan) thinks it would take to pry him away are not on par with anything that has taken place in NBA history (and this isnt about Joe Johnson, find me a player EVER to bring in the kind of haul you guys are expecting on a free agent S/T). Its hard to imagine the Hornets management are as keen on handing 58 million to a player who has played 9 games for them and is professing a strong distaste for the franchise. I think keeping him is a real possibility for New Orleans, if anything just to save face. But I have no doubt that they are strongly considering moving him, and in the long run it would probably be in their best interest.
And the Hornets dont have leverage in this situation. They can negotiate with no other team and the Suns still have a large amount of cap space to pursue other free agents.
To get a player in restricted free agency you have to overpay, the Suns already did that part. There is the leverage. The Hornets are now staring at an unappetizing contract on a very injury prone player. Do they take what they can get for him? Or do they take a big gamble on his health and his attitude? Because if his health/attitude dont improve significantly the Hornets wont be able to get anything for him down the road.
Personally, I hope the Hornets match and thats the end of it.
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Once he signs the contract that the Suns have offered the Hornets HAVE ALL THE LEVERAGE!!!!! You are acting like we have to trade him as soon as possible when we will have three years to get something for him, if they trade him at all. Demps may not want to move him, and honestly I wouldn't move him until after next year anyway. As good as he's been, he still hasn't reached his full potential as a player. A lot of that has to do with injuries, so if he plays for a year and reaches his potential without injuries the trade market would be ridiculous for a 24 year old SG, who has 3 years remaining on his contract.
As much as you don't want Gordon, the Suns need him a lot worse than the Hornets do. He'd be the best player on your roster by a mile, while we have Davis (and to a lesser extent Rivers) who could end up being better than him within a year or two.
After finally calming down from his ignorant and immature comments through the damn media, I don't want to trade Gordon. He just has to much potential and the Hornets have to much going for them at this time to trade a player of his caliber. I mean he is tradable, no one is untradable except for Lebron, but it would have to be a ridiculous offer which won't happen anytime soon.
frankly we do not know what exactly to expect since this is a very unusual circumstance...and for the record this isn't nearly the same situation as the joe johnson situation since the hornets have a lot of cap space and the suns already had nash, amare, and marion at that time...therefore, the hornets can afford to take on a max contract even if it is a risky one...personally, i never saw it as much of a risk, 4 yrs is a lot riskier than a 6 yr contract in my mind; plus anthony davis will be underpaid throughout the duration of gordon's contract
but you better believe that the hornets have all the leverage in this situation...the hornets may agree to a sign and trade IF they like what the suns are willing to offer during negotiations...IF they do not like the assets they get in return, then they will simply match and handler things from there...the relationship with gordon is repairable in my opinion...for ex, if the suns aren't willing to give up gortat, then dell can explain to gordon that even though the suns say they want you as their franchise player, they aren't even willing to give up a gortat or dudley for you, so this contradicts your earlier belief in how much you think the suns really think of your abilities
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Unfortunately, the haul we're looking for i'm sure has been requested and denied by the other team. This is what we're looking for, if you don't match it, move on. There have been a million high demands for a player turned down. I'm not saying this is what we're going to get, im saying this is what we want. Like i said earlier, not willing to match it? Then move on.
I've said this before, please do research before posting what we "cant do" We DO have leverage. We can either get his permission to move him within the first year. Or we can wait one year and move him WHEREVER we want. To say we won't be able to get anything for him after Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams were moved, along with noting he's 23, along with not even knowing the rules makes me think you're trolling and trying to get a rise out of Hornets fans.
No, it doesnt. Just offering Gordon the contract was a bad move. But overpaying him in salary AND giving up unprecedented trade value just plain will not happen.
I think Demps is a good GM, he is building the way he should (original Paul trade aside). Dumping long term deals, loading up on youth, stockpiling picks. That is part of the reason I think the Hornets might let Gordon go for some picks and a player like Marshall or Morris... its the SMART MOVE! There is no part of building a championship contending roster that involves throwing a player like Gordon a max contract. Thats why I DONT want the Suns to get him. Getting Gordon on this deal is a step towards long term mediocrity. He is, at best, a borderline max player when healthy and he hasnt been consistently healthy since he was a rookie.
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The suns are well off pace on creating a champion.
Joe Johnson is a far more well rounded player than Gordon AND he does not have the serious injury history Gordon does, and what did Atlanta get in the Joe Johnson trade?! They got absolute garbage. If anything your example backs up my point. Atlanta had to give Johnson away for utter trash. You're going to hold out for a poo poo platter? If Gordon does not prove himself able to stay healthy then he will be completely worthless as a trade asset. There is no getting around that.
Last edited by phrazbit; 07-08-2012 at 02:03 PM.
Really? Are you struggling this bad to grasp my point? I AGREE!!! Good lord, the moves the Suns are making right now are BAD MOVES!!! That includes offering Gordon this bad contract!
When bringing up the correct path to building a contender is was complimenting YOUR team and dissing mine. If you were not so damn hostile just because I am rooting for a different franchise you might actually realize how close our viewpoints are.
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Joe Johnson as you've ignored was a different situation. yes we're going to hold out for a "poo poo platter" because we WANT to keep him. That's what you don't understand. There has been no question if we would match his offer from management. They said immediately we would. You're discounting that fact. You think because he throws a fit, all of the sudden he's toxic and is past the point of no return. We don't.
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I'm not hostile. I'm saying he's not going to PHX for mid first round picks (Marshall and Morris). The Hornets got a discount on Gordon by letting PHX offer him their max compared to what he was asking of us. It was a good business move. He's a little butt hurt from it, but I think things mend themselves. he's not a full max guy and is only in a 4 year deal at 23 right now. It's a good risk considering we're 4 years from competing. If he stays injured we can trade him for mid teir talent at any time. I don't think Gordon's value drops that low after one year from injuries where we cant get a bench player and a mid round pick, I just don't see that.
Good then. And its not because I think he is toxic and past the point of no return. Its because its good business to ship him off for assets while there is an opportunity. Whoever gets Gordon is very likely to strongly regret it and be unable to rid themselves of him later.
If he has another season of injury struggles next year it will be his 4th in 5 NBA seasons. A guy with serious injury problems on a max deal is virtually impossible to move. They wont be able to get a mid level player for him. Those are the kinds of contracts you see teams having to attach picks just to give away.
Why are you using Joe Johnson just being moved as an example arguing AGAINST getting nothing? Did you see what Atlanta got for Joe Johnson? Pretty much nothing. They were just dumping his contract. If that's what you think the Hornets will get next year if they try to trade him, then it's a great example, but it seemed like you were arguing the opposite.
"The suns are well off pace on creating a champion."
Probably where the Hornets would be if Demps original Paul trade went through. Borderline playoff team with a bunch of bad contracts. Lucky Stern bailed Demps out and gave him a second chance.
Last edited by WilkesG; 07-08-2012 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Forgot reply with quote
It's easy then.. Match the Suns offer and keep him regardless of what he wants.. After all, what do we know. You guys are the ones with multiple championship banners on your building. And no Star player in the NBA ever wants to play inPhx, only in NO.
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Nope you misunderstood my point. Those were considered unmovable contracts. They were moved. Wasn't comparing value of them being moved.
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This thread is 100% pointless. With the S&T for Anderson, it's obvious Dell is going to match. Anderson for 4 years/36 million only makes sense if we are going to retain Gordon because he's a very important role player, on a contending team, and not somebody to rebuild around. The best part of that deal is Dell is still going to have enough cap space to offer a max contract to a FA next summer (I think).
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Suns fans don't negotiate trades, their crappy management does. End of debate on that one.
I wouldn't call it a foregone conclusion. Anderson is only 24. Not as if he went and signed some 30 year old veteran role player.
"Hornets means nothing." - Tom Benson
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