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Thread: Best Possible S&T for Gordon?/Gordon trade possibilities {merged}

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by DTBHornet View Post
    What's the Childress contract?
    I posted it above, but here you go:

    Quote Originally Posted by nolaslim213 View Post
    3 more years escalating: 6.5, 7.1, and 7.3.

  2. #202
    Suns fan here.

    I guarantee the Suns will not for a moment consider trading Gortat or a totally unprotected pick for Gordon. There is not the slightest chance in hell that either of those pieces will be on the table.

    So, reign in those expectations a bit. IMO, the Suns would be giving up too much if they included more than 2 picks AND Marshall. That is the most I could see being surrendered... outside of throw in guys like a resigned Lopez or Brown... either of which could be had.

    Personally, I'd be fine if the Hornets matched. Both teams are looking at huge risks in this exchange, the Hornets with a disgruntled max contract and injury prone player, and the Suns potentially giving up a couple picks for an extremely injury prone player who has never proven himself a difference maker.

    I assumed before this started that the Hornets would match any offer, but Gordon is doing his best to obliterate any value the Hornets might be able to get for him down the road and putting NO in a position to have their highest paid player booed all season long.

    Either the Hornets are going to accept a s/t and get awful value in exchange or they are going to roll the dice on an unhappy player on a huge contract. I see no other way this plays out.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Suns fan here.

    I guarantee the Suns will not for a moment consider trading Gortat or a totally unprotected pick for Gordon. There is not the slightest chance in hell that either of those pieces will be on the table.

    So, reign in those expectations a bit. IMO, the Suns would be giving up too much if they included more than 2 picks AND Marshall. That is the most I could see being surrendered... outside of throw in guys like a resigned Lopez or Brown... either of which could be had.

    Personally, I'd be fine if the Hornets matched. Both teams are looking at huge risks in this exchange, the Hornets with a disgruntled max contract and injury prone player, and the Suns potentially giving up a couple picks for an extremely injury prone player who has never proven himself a difference maker.

    I assumed before this started that the Hornets would match any offer, but Gordon is doing his best to obliterate any value the Hornets might be able to get for him down the road and putting NO in a position to have their highest paid player booed all season long.

    Either the Hornets are going to accept a s/t and get awful value in exchange or they are going to roll the dice on an unhappy player on a huge contract. I see no other way this plays out.
    Lol, then find yourself another 23 year old superstar in the making to build your franchise around. You think you can get him for free? Keep in mind, bud, that we hold ALL of the cards.

    By the way, Gordon already said that he'd play for us if we match, so you aren't going to get him for anything less than top dollar. Dell doesn't do discounts.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Suns fan here.

    I guarantee the Suns will not for a moment consider trading Gortat or a totally unprotected pick for Gordon. There is not the slightest chance in hell that either of those pieces will be on the table.

    So, reign in those expectations a bit. IMO, the Suns would be giving up too much if they included more than 2 picks AND Marshall. That is the most I could see being surrendered... outside of throw in guys like a resigned Lopez or Brown... either of which could be had.

    Personally, I'd be fine if the Hornets matched. Both teams are looking at huge risks in this exchange, the Hornets with a disgruntled max contract and injury prone player, and the Suns potentially giving up a couple picks for an extremely injury prone player who has never proven himself a difference maker.

    I assumed before this started that the Hornets would match any offer, but Gordon is doing his best to obliterate any value the Hornets might be able to get for him down the road and putting NO in a position to have their highest paid player booed all season long.

    Either the Hornets are going to accept a s/t and get awful value in exchange or they are going to roll the dice on an unhappy player on a huge contract. I see no other way this plays out.
    gordon= puppeteer

    phoenix suns= puppets

    the thing is, your dealing with big daddy Demps who doesn't take **** from anyone.. you sound just like the clippers fans who said, 1. your not getting gordon, 2. your not getting the pick... Demps got both

    so basically whats gonna happen is were keeping gordon, or were taking gortat, unprotected pick, and brown (not including marshall because i don't like him)
    Last edited by bojangles837; 07-07-2012 at 11:54 PM.

    #FREE QUAIL

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Suns fan here.

    I guarantee the Suns will not for a moment consider trading Gortat or a totally unprotected pick for Gordon. There is not the slightest chance in hell that either of those pieces will be on the table.

    So, reign in those expectations a bit. IMO, the Suns would be giving up too much if they included more than 2 picks AND Marshall. That is the most I could see being surrendered... outside of throw in guys like a resigned Lopez or Brown... either of which could be had.

    Personally, I'd be fine if the Hornets matched. Both teams are looking at huge risks in this exchange, the Hornets with a disgruntled max contract and injury prone player, and the Suns potentially giving up a couple picks for an extremely injury prone player who has never proven himself a difference maker.

    I assumed before this started that the Hornets would match any offer, but Gordon is doing his best to obliterate any value the Hornets might be able to get for him down the road and putting NO in a position to have their highest paid player booed all season long.

    Either the Hornets are going to accept a s/t and get awful value in exchange or they are going to roll the dice on an unhappy player on a huge contract. I see no other way this plays out.
    Keep dreaming on option 1. Worst case scenario for the Hornets is they match and trade a disgruntled Gordon in year 2. We have the cap space and time to outlast any ****ty offers. But realistically, your crappy management will probably cave and give us what we want.

    Sarver is a ****ing moron and you blew at least two titles because he was cheap.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by nolaslim213 View Post
    Lol, then find yourself another 23 year old superstar in the making to build your franchise around. You think you can get him for free? Keep in mind, bud, that we hold ALL of the cards.

    By the way, Gordon already said that he'd play for us if we match, so you aren't going to get him for anything less than top dollar. Dell doesn't do discounts.
    ... I didnt say for free, and its not like New Orleans holds all the cards... there is only one team they can negotiate with and the player in question does not want to play for them... those are some pretty big cards. And Gordon is NOT a superstar.

    These situations have happened before, teams dont get full value when shipping off disgruntled restricted free agents. The Suns are not going to part with major assets, to a team who can ONLY negotiate with them, for a guy they are already looking at giving a full max contract to.

    Like I said, I expected him to remain a Hornet regardless, but he is taking a sledge hammer to his trade value right now and the Hornets have to seriously question if they could move him down the road.

  7. #207
    That's funny to me. Suns fans expecting us to just give up a player who will easily be the future of their franchise, for completely unproven/untested scraps, as if they hold the cards and they're entitled to Gordon for almost nothing. No. We're not going to give up Gordon for a package that doesn't include a single piece who has played a second of NBA basketball.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by ULsaint View Post
    Keep dreaming on option 1. Worst case scenario for the Hornets is they match and trade a disgruntled Gordon in year 2. We have the cap space and time to outlast any ****ty offers. But realistically, your crappy management will probably cave and give us what we want.

    Sarver is a ****ing moron and you blew at least two titles because he was cheap.
    Sarver is a moron, I wont argue there, but he is more stupid and shortsighted... and thats far worse than simply being cheap.

    Worst case is you're stuck with him and have to move him, but the prospects of moving him will be very grim, especially if he has another injury plagued season, which is likely. If the Hornets match there is a good chance they are stuck with him for 4 years, which is fine with me.

    And no, the Suns wont "cave to demands" because the Hornets are in an awful negotiating position and the Suns already did a big risk even offering Gordon this contract.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Sarver is a moron, I wont argue there, but he is more stupid and shortsighted... and thats far worse than simply being cheap.

    Worst case is you're stuck with him and have to move him, but the prospects of moving him will be very grim, especially if he has another injury plagued season, which is likely. If the Hornets match there is a good chance they are stuck with him for 4 years, which is fine with me.

    And no, the Suns wont "cave to demands" because the Hornets are in an awful negotiating position and the Suns already did a big risk even offering Gordon this contract.
    I've always liked the Suns and loved the 7 Seconds or Less style of ball so it really sucked when they pissed away a championship by being cheap and because of Stern's ridiculous suspensions in the Horry cross-check game. Anyway, I think you're overvaluing the issue of Gordon being disgruntled. The key here is time. The Hornets don't have to rush anything. If he pouts we just hold on to him and stick his *** on the bench. He will cave at some point. And this is the NBA. Most GMs are morons. Did you not just see that the Nets acquired Joe Johnson's contract and that the Rockets paid $25 million to a giant stiff? Some team will get desperate and give up quality assets for Gordon.

  10. #210
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    Also, what's your take on Morris? Seems like he's incredibly overrated on here. I don't want him. Dude had the lowest rating on the entire team according to 82games.com. That site's stats are pretty much my go to for evaluating these kinds of things. It's better than per, Hollinger's stuff, etc. They are usually spot on.

    I'd much prefer Dudley than Morris in any trade. And wtf were you guys thinking signing Beasley? Talk about a black hole of empty numbers. That dude is like a homeless man's Carmello Anthony or Glenn Robinson. Maybe like a rich man's Lee Nailon. Absolute empty stats, no D playing, loser.

    I do like Dragic but why the **** did ya'll trade him to Houston to begin with after he played such a big role in finally beating San Antonio that one year? I don't get the Suns F.O. at all. So much wasted potential in the Nash/Stoudemire/Marion/Johnson years.

  11. #211
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    Can we sign Gordon then trade him later on? As in this off season? If I'm wrong correct me but if I'm right I say we send him to the rockets. I don't see why not. I'm tired of these suns scrubs. They're like lakers fans trying to make players out of their crap. (which the lakers just did to them) so if I'm not mistaken that is some pretty garbage management.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by ULsaint View Post
    I've always liked the Suns and loved the 7 Seconds or Less style of ball so it really sucked when they pissed away a championship by being cheap and because of Stern's ridiculous suspensions in the Horry cross-check game. Anyway, I think you're overvaluing the issue of Gordon being disgruntled. The key here is time. The Hornets don't have to rush anything. If he pouts we just hold on to him and stick his *** on the bench. He will cave at some point. And this is the NBA. Most GMs are morons. Did you not just see that the Nets acquired Joe Johnson's contract and that the Rockets paid $25 million to a giant stiff? Some team will get desperate and give up quality assets for Gordon.
    Its a nice idea but it would never happen. You dont sign a guy to a max deal and then bench him... while at the same time hoping to get value out of him down the road. If New Orleans went through all of that they would end up in a situation like the Pistons were in with Ben Gordon where they had to pair him with picks just to give him away.

    This is different than the Chris Paul situation. Gordon is not under contract, New Orleans cannot negotiate with multiple suitors. Its Suns or bust, and Gordon is no where near the talent Paul is. The kinds of absurd demands being thrown around here (2 unprotected picks, Marshall and Gortat) are the packages you see for true star players who are already under contract. Its hard to think of ANY restricted free agent who brought in a haul even close to that level for his former team. Throw in how badly Gordon is trashing the Hornets franchise, his injury history and the inherent risk in the contract alone and New Orleans is not going to get even remotely the value being talked about here.
    Last edited by phrazbit; 07-08-2012 at 12:13 AM.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by DTBHornet View Post
    Can we sign Gordon then trade him later on? As in this off season? If I'm wrong correct me but if I'm right I say we send him to the rockets. I don't see why not. I'm tired of these suns scrubs. They're like lakers fans trying to make players out of their crap. (which the lakers just did to them) so if I'm not mistaken that is some pretty garbage management.
    No. He cant be traded at all until december 15th, and even then Gordon will have veto power on any trade for a full year. The Hornets will have almost no hope of extracting value for him in a trade for a long time, and if Gordon is still this pouty and/or injury prone, the Hornets will be lucky to give him away.

  14. #214
    Starter DTBHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Its a nice idea but it would never happen. You dont sign a guy to a max deal and then bench him... while at the same time hoping to get value out of him down the road. If New Orleans went through all of that they would end up in a situation like the Pistons were in with Ben Gordon where they had to pair him with picks just to give him away.

    This is different than the Chris Paul situation. Gordon is not under contract, New Orleans cannot negotiate with multiple suitors. Its Suns or bust, and Gordon is no where near the talent Paul is. The kinds of absurd demands being thrown around here (2 unprotected picks, Marshall and Gortat) are the packages you see for true star players who are already under contract. Its hard to think of ANY restricted free agent who brought in a haul even close to that level for his former team. Throw in how badly Gordon is trashing the Hornets franchise, his injury history and the inherent risk in the contract alone and New Orleans is not going to get even remotely the value being talked about here.
    Throw in your front office dropping stat, signing warrick and Childress, trading away dragic only to overpay for him a year later, trading away Nash for 4 2nd round draft picks basically, and then signing the all powerful black hole beasley, and I don't feel bad about our position.

  15. #215
    I am just as happy to let Gordon go back to you. I cringe at the idea of giving him a max contract anyway. The idea of giving up other assets as well is just too much. Thats the point of the bidding this way. Its not getting him for free, thats for sure.

  16. #216
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    Yeah, not to pile on, but I don't get what ANY team sees in Beasley. Dude sucks big time.

  17. #217
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    Bottom line imo is that Loomis/Demps are smarter than anyone running the Suns and Gordon. Somehow, some way, we will will this situation.

    Loomis imo is the wildcard here. I have no doubt we'd get raped if Shinn was still the owner. Benson's guys are not dumb. They may be new to the NBA but they know how to play hardball.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by DTBHornet View Post
    Throw in your front office dropping stat, signing warrick and Childress, trading away dragic only to overpay for him a year later, trading away Nash for 4 2nd round draft picks basically, and then signing the all powerful black hole beasley, and I don't feel bad about our position.
    Keeping stat would have been a disaster. Nash was a completely unrestricted free agent and they got 2 firsts and 2 seconds for him... pretty rare you see anything close to that for a UFA, the Suns also depantsed Orlando in the Gortat trade.

    And I will admit to hating the Dragic trade... but I like bringing him back, and I utterly loath Beasley.

    I'm just telling you how its going to be. The Hornets getting 1/3rd value for Gordon at this point is the most they could expect and the most any team gets in these situations. Either that or the Hornets are stuck with a disgruntled max contract player who they wont even have the option to trade for a while... and if he gets injured in the meantime (which he has done with regularity), the Hornets will be lucky to give him away.

    Personally, I'd be totally fine with the Hornets matching the offer and keeping him. Signing a player with his injury history, even without a possible trade, is a huge risk.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    No. He cant be traded at all until december 15th, and even then Gordon will have veto power on any trade for a full year. The Hornets will have almost no hope of extracting value for him in a trade for a long time, and if Gordon is still this pouty and/or injury prone, the Hornets will be lucky to give him away.
    I think this pretty much comes down to you being correct when you said that Gordon will remain in New Orleans....and you should be able to see the view from here by now...its a no-brainer for us to wait a while and see what pans out than to let him go for next to nothing right now...best of luck in future ventures though...
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  20. #220
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    hey Suns posters, can you guys tell me a little bit about Warrick. He is a guy i think would do good as a back-up big for us. I have seen some highlight dunks from him, but thats about all.

  21. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    Keeping stat would have been a disaster. Nash was a completely unrestricted free agent and they got 2 firsts and 2 seconds for him... pretty rare you see anything close to that for a UFA, the Suns also depantsed Orlando in the Gortat trade.

    And I will admit to hating the Dragic trade... but I like bringing him back, and I utterly loath Beasley.

    I'm just telling you how its going to be. The Hornets getting 1/3rd value for Gordon at this point is the most they could expect and the most any team gets in these situations. Either that or the Hornets are stuck with a disgruntled max contract player who they wont even have the option to trade for a while... and if he gets injured in the meantime (which he has done with regularity), the Hornets will be lucky to give him away.

    Personally, I'd be totally fine with the Hornets matching the offer and keeping him. Signing a player with his injury history, even without a possible trade, is a huge risk.
    I'd be totally fine with the Hornets matching the offer and keeping him as well. I am not OK with giving him away for the scraps that you seem to think would be the most the Hornets could hope to get for him. With the cap room the Hornets have available, I'd rather wait until an acceptable offer came along in time. And that assumes he doesn't have a change of heart once he is playing with the guys the team assembles around him. In the sign and trade to Phoenix scenario you paint, the Hornets are certain losers. I would rather risk a potential losing situation down the road, than take a certain loss now. And there is always the chance that he either learns to like playing with thses guys or a better trade deal comes along later.

    One thing you can be sure of though. With Loomis in charge, there is zero chance Gordon plays for the Suns this season, unless the Hornets come out of a sign and trade with valuable assets.

  22. #222
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    It's pretty clear the two sides (atleast fan wise) aren't going to agree on anything.

    Honestly, the Suns don't impress me, asset wise. Match it and move on.
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  23. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by ULsaint View Post
    Bottom line imo is that Loomis/Demps are smarter than anyone running the Suns and Gordon. Somehow, some way, we will will this situation.

    Loomis imo is the wildcard here. I have no doubt we'd get raped if Shinn was still the owner. Benson's guys are not dumb. They may be new to the NBA but they know how to play hardball.
    Getting some picks and a young player is NOT getting raped at this point. Its the best value a team can hope for in this kind of situation, and its way more than I would give up. You guys arnt trading away CP3 or Dwight Howard. You're shipping off a young volume scorer who is injury prone, who just signed a bloated contract and has spent a week pissing on his former organization.

    Personally if was running the Suns I'd offer up the Lakers picks and Shannon Brown, and your pick of any of the Suns bad contracts. IMO offering up anything more is foolish and just adding risk on risk. If the Hornets match... fine, call up OJ Mayo, Lou Williams and offer them a pittance of Gordon's bloated deal.

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSisterFister View Post
    hey Suns posters, can you guys tell me a little bit about Warrick. He is a guy i think would do good as a back-up big for us. I have seen some highlight dunks from him, but thats about all.
    I'm not going to BS you... Warrick is awful. Easily one of the worst players in the league. I'd be thrilled if for some morbid reason the Hornets wanted him.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by phrazbit View Post
    I'm not going to BS you... Warrick is awful. Easily one of the worst players in the league. I'd be thrilled if for some morbid reason the Hornets wanted him.
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