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Thread: Chandler for Okafor deal in works {Update - Official 7/28} {mega-merged}

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan2709
    Ill bring it up again, since people keep mentioning the height loss, Emeka has a bigger wing span and standing reach then Chandler.
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...Chandler-1974/
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Emeka-Okafor-3810/

    You're right about that, although Okafor's only beats Chandler slightly in both categories. Wingspan (7'4'' to 7'3'') Standing Reach (9'2.5'' to 9'2'')

    That being said, what I'm most pleased about this trade is that we added a center with some offensive game so hopefully we'll do more damage in the paint.

  2. #402
    Again, the problem isnt with Okafor's size- it is Okafor's size COMBINED with West's. You just dont see championship frontline's that are 6'8, 6'8, 6'10. Look at all the title teams and elite teams in general.

    I dont see West going anywhere soon but to win a title down the line some additional size will have to be added either with a replacement for West at the 4, moving Okafor to 4 or getting some kind of freak 6 11 SF like an Odom or Garnett 5 years ago type. Thats just what history says.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Again, the problem isnt with Okafor's size- it is Okafor's size COMBINED with West's. You just dont see championship frontline's that are 6'8, 6'8, 6'10. Look at all the title teams and elite teams in general.

    I dont see West going anywhere soon but to win a title down the line some additional size will have to be added either with a replacement for West at the 4, moving Okafor to 4 or getting some kind of freak 6 11 SF like an Odom or Garnett 5 years ago type. Thats just what history says.
    NJ almost won the title with an undersized team. They had a great chance had K-Mart not went postal in Games 5 and 6 against SA.

    I agree with your general point, and I don't think you can be a true dominant team without more size. BUT, that is an issue that is far down the line IMO. A much bigger priority longterm still is to find a stud SG or SF.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    NJ almost won the title with an undersized team. They had a great chance had K-Mart not went postal in Games 5 and 6 against SA.

    I agree with your general point, and I don't think you can be a true dominant team without more size. BUT, that is an issue that is far down the line IMO. A much bigger priority longterm still is to find a stud SG or SF.

    Completely agree- and I am not saying "just dump West to get a legit 7 footer" but down the line it will have to be addressed. As for that NJ team, they had a well above average size PG in Kidd (6 foot 4 and pulled down nearly 8 RPG to compensate for basically no Center) and average height or above average at every other position with kittles, RJ, Martin, and Collins.

    Again, we would be UNDERsized at 2 positions- much different. But a 6'9/ 6'10 SG or 6'11 SF could balance that out as well, although those guys are extremely rare.

  5. #405
    Okafor and West will be fine if we find a backup for them.

    Size always help in basketball, but that's not all. Undersize players need to play with energy. We just has to find a 7 ft backup to give them some rest.
    TRADE ERIC GORDON

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Completely agree- and I am not saying "just dump West to get a legit 7 footer" but down the line it will have to be addressed. As for that NJ team, they had a well above average size PG in Kidd (6 foot 4 and pulled down nearly 8 RPG to compensate for basically no Center) and average height or above average at every other position with kittles, RJ, Martin, and Collins.

    Again, we would be UNDERsized at 2 positions- much different. But a 6'9/ 6'10 SG or 6'11 SF could balance that out as well, although those guys are extremely rare.
    I hear ya, good points all around there again. That's why I've always liked Julian, his length and the deflections he causes bc of it. Made no sense to take away his minutes last year. He could be better than RJ on defense potentially (not close on offense).

    Anyway, what do you see the Hornets doing the rest of the way to get a big?

  7. #407
    They will definately be "fine" and I have no doubt we are easily a top 8-10 NBA team this year with a ceiling of probably the WCF but I am talking about a TITLE. There is a difference between the 2. You can not find a TITLE team with a frontline this size. Cant do it.

    So yes we are much better now than we were last week, but all I am saying is that history shows we will not win a title with a front line of JuJu, West, and Okafor.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Again, the problem isnt with Okafor's size- it is Okafor's size COMBINED with West's. You just dont see championship frontline's that are 6'8, 6'8, 6'10. Look at all the title teams and elite teams in general.

    I dont see West going anywhere soon but to win a title down the line some additional size will have to be added either with a replacement for West at the 4, moving Okafor to 4 or getting some kind of freak 6 11 SF like an Odom or Garnett 5 years ago type. Thats just what history says.

    I don't want to go on and on about wingspan and standing reach, but in some aspects they are more important then height. To a degree anyway (even if a 6'3 player had the hugest arms and reach you wouldn't want him playing C because of his body and strength issues). David West also has a larger wingspan then Chandler (although a shorter standing reach) which for a PF is very impressive.

    I do agree that in the past a lot of championships were won with big front courts, however the league has gotten smaller in the last few years - I did a quick check and I think there is around 10 starting C over 7ft, and the C position is very very weak atm - especially with Yao out injured this season. Dwight is far and away the best C in the league for next season, and a lot of teams are using make shift C's. Pau Gasol played mainly PF til he was at the lakers (I know he supports your arguement of big men and championships) however he was moved over to the C due to the lack of depth they had at C, the Rockets moved Scola to C when Yao went down and he is far and away a PF, David Lee is the Knicks C (though thats due to there system) and there a countless examples of players playing out of position to the C. Though I have kind of gone of topic because your original point was that height is important to win championships, and while I agree in the past it has been I think the league is changing and you are seeing smaller players do more things then ever. The way CP3 rebounds is amazing - he plays well above his height, I mean he is a better rebounder then Hilton arguably.

    I don't think the hornets are a championship team, and we may be a year or two off, however if we can get a SG or a SF in who is an above average starter and a back up like Anderson who can cover PF/C (I dont want Anderson anywhere near the hornets, just an above average back up I mean) we may be in with a shot . I don't think the lack of height will hurt us, we just need those players to play above their heights, with there effort and talent, and for the big men we have to use there long wing span to disrupt on defense, swat balls and grab rebounds.
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  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Completely agree- and I am not saying "just dump West to get a legit 7 footer" but down the line it will have to be addressed. As for that NJ team, they had a well above average size PG in Kidd (6 foot 4 and pulled down nearly 8 RPG to compensate for basically no Center) and average height or above average at every other position with kittles, RJ, Martin, and Collins.

    Again, we would be UNDERsized at 2 positions- much different. But a 6'9/ 6'10 SG or 6'11 SF could balance that out as well, although those guys are extremely rare.
    Peja is 6'10. Bulter, Posey, JuJu would all be OVERsized for their positions. Daniels is 6'4 which is "well above average" for a PG.

    Would you want Livingston to play PG ahead of Paul? Or sign Sene because he has extreme length?

    Its talent bro. Size helps but you need talent

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    I hear ya, good points all around there again. That's why I've always liked Julian, his length and the deflections he causes bc of it. Made no sense to take away his minutes last year. He could be better than RJ on defense potentially (not close on offense).

    Anyway, what do you see the Hornets doing the rest of the way to get a big?

    Another big will be added, but I think what this offseason is showing is there is no need to rush. There will always be good options available. I really think Marks will be back as a 13th man and we are still trying to move AD for a big rather than sign one and add to our payroll. AD for Battie would be ideal IMO, but again, no need to rush- we will get someone who will battle Hilton for the 15 mins or so a game that will be available at the backup 4/5. From what I hear, the ideal would be:

    1.) A big for AD straight up
    2.) Joe Smith at 1 yr/2.5
    3.) A guy willing to take the biannual like Diougu or Warrick

    However it looks like Smith might go to Atlanta. And I know Posey for Big Baby is on the table and has been for a while and Ainge might just wake up one day and say "Alright, lets do this" As this trade shows- you never know.

    Remember, they have to October and are gonna move at their own pace- not panic.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    This has been in the works for a little over two weeks as Charlotte has wanted to wait a while to see how Chandler's injury is coming along. They arent purely dumping salary, they could have trading Okafor for an expiring if they wanted to do that. Instead, they believe Chandler is a better fit for Augustin and Felton pushing the ball, and he wont require as many touches in the post as Okafor does. They are thinking- if TC is the old TC, great, he fits perfectly. If not, he is a great trade chip next year or gives them cap space in 2 years.

    As for us, there has been two goals this offseason with regards to our roster:

    1.) Toughness
    2.) Guys who can score without CP3 spoon feeding them

    Okafor and Thornton definately fit the bill for their positions and all 3 of our additions fit the 2nd criteria. Even if TC was 100 percent, this trade would have gone down. One of the first things Scott brought up to Bower when they met this offseason was the fact that teams had figured out the screen and roll. TC, even at 100 percent, would never be the threat offensively they needed. The first target was Shaq, a guy who could get his own in the post. Wallace was looked at ONLY if they could buy him out super cheap and then they could go after a marquee big with the MLE. Indy also was very interested in TC, as were Miami before the Boozer and Odom talk. About two weeks ago Charlotte called them about Okafor and Bower I believe made a comment not to long ago about a shakeup. This is what he was referring to. We sent our latest reports to Charlotte about TC's progress this past week and Charlotte is ready to go through with this deal and take the risk for the before mentioned reasons.

    Now this is what I have been told by my buddy who has been watching tape on Okafor for about a week now but wasnt told why until yesterday. As for my opinion, if anyone cares. I Love it and I really think you are starting to see us implore the 80's Detroit Piston model I have been begging for to be put around Paul (in fact I have a post where I listed my dream team around Paul and Okafor was the starting PF) Thornton is the undersized tough shooter a la Dumars or Microwave, Okafor will be our Rodman/Mahorn type, etc.

    Yes, i think eventually Okafor will be our PF. I just dont think titles are won with a PF who is 6'8'' and center who is 6'10". How or when this will happen, I have no clue but Okafor's contract is 3 years longer than West's and I think he is our long term PF.

    Anyway, I am glad to see people are happy with the offseason and have learned to wait until the offseason is actually over before making assumptions and pushing the panic button. Speaking of, yes we have talked to Warrick and Big Baby is only a possibility if Boston reconsiders and takes Posey.
    Wow, I can't believe CHA is that dumb. I'm just curious if you have any idea on this. Say that Detroit called Charlotte a month ago and tried to acquire Okafor. Since they were under the cap at that time by so much, I believe that DET could have simply shipped them a 2nd draft pick or something to get it done. Do you think Charlotte would have done that? Or are they in love with Chandler that much that they would take him over that? If Charlotte only called the Hornets two weeks ago, I'm wondering if maybe Okafor wasn't available until then?

    What is your buddy's opinion on Okafor after watching him over the past week? I don't exactly watch the Bobcats a ton.

    On another note that doesn't matter anymore, I don't buy that at all that teams had figured out the pick and roll. Freakin' Gregg Poppovich couldn't figure it out over a 7 game series. Noone figured out Stockton and Malone for 20 years. It was a close to unstoppable play, so I don't buy that nonsense at all.

  12. #412
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    someone give shawn bradley a call. Someone tell him jesus will be happy with him if he played for the hornets.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Another big will be added, but I think what this offseason is showing is there is no need to rush. There will always be good options available. I really think Marks will be back as a 13th man and we are still trying to move AD for a big rather than sign one and add to our payroll. AD for Battie would be ideal IMO, but again, no need to rush- we will get someone who will battle Hilton for the 15 mins or so a game that will be available at the backup 4/5. From what I hear, the ideal would be:

    1.) A big for AD straight up
    2.) Joe Smith at 1 yr/2.5
    3.) A guy willing to take the biannual like Diougu or Warrick

    However it looks like Smith might go to Atlanta. And I know Posey for Big Baby is on the table and has been for a while and Ainge might just wake up one day and say "Alright, lets do this" As this trade shows- you never know.

    Remember, they have to October and are gonna move at their own pace- not panic.
    Yes, patience is always good. That's why I was against Posey last offseason, it was an impatient move that only made sense to fans who go by emotion. Never do these to appease the fans.

    Anyway, is it too late on Smith? I really having been paying attention lately since it's been so slow. I wonder if the Hornets could make a bigger push now since they just freed up $1-2M for this year.

    I don't see Ainge ever going for that. He didn't want Posey's contract last summer, so I'm not sure why he would now. They need him much less now than they did then bc they have Rasheed.

    Are the Hornets trying to deal Posey, Mo Pete, etc?

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by ryan2709
    I don't want to go on and on about wingspan and standing reach, but in some aspects they are more important then height. To a degree anyway (even if a 6'3 player had the hugest arms and reach you wouldn't want him playing C because of his body and strength issues). David West also has a larger wingspan then Chandler - although a shorter standing reach which for a PF is very impressive.

    I do agree that in the past a lot of championships were won with big front courts, however the league has gotten smaller in the last few years - I did a quick check and I think there is around 10 starting C over 7ft, and the C position is very very weak atm - especially with Yao out injured this season. Dwight is far and away the best C in the league for next season, and a lot of teams are using make shift C's. Pau Gasol played mainly PF til he was at the lakers (I know he supports your arguement of big men and championships) however he was moved over to the C due to the lack of depth they had at C, the Rockets moved Scola to C when Yao went down and he is far and away a PF, David Lee is the Knicks C (though thats due to there system) and there a countless examples of players playing out of position to the C. Though I have kind of gone of topic because your original point was that height is important to win championships, and while I agree in the past it has been I think the league is changing and you are seeing smaller players do more things then ever. The way CP3 rebounds is amazing - he plays well above his height, I mean he is a better rebounder then Hilton arguably.

    I don't think the hornets are a championship team, and we may be a year or two off, however if we can get a SG or a SF in who is an above average starter and a back up like Anderson who can cover PF/C (I dont want Anderson anywhere near the hornets, just an above average back up I mean) we maybe in with a shot . I don't think the lack of height will hurt us, we just need those players to play above their heights, with there effort and talent, and for the big men we have to use there long wing span to disrupt on defense, swat balls and grab rebounds.

    Good post- I agree. I swear, you say a team isnt a Champion and people react like you called them a lottery team. This team is very good as constructed but to become an elite title team, length will have to be added somewhere- either in the frontcourt or on the wings. Again, this is not my opinion as much as it is fact in regards to the longer teams winning the titles. I have seen the numbers crunched by a professional who spent months compiling data and drilled him with a lot of the same things you guys are drilling me with- so I understand the desire to disprove a theory that goes against your current teams makeup. But the reality is that the facts dont lie and some serious length will need to be added to move us from very good to Elite/champion.

    Personally, since I like Thornton and JuJu and find 6'10 SG's and SF's extremely rare- I think the long term answer is Okafor at PF with an Okur/Lambeer type Center who can stretch defenses, but that is my opinion and I am fine knowing most of you will disagree with that- just my opinion.

    The statistical analysis is fact however and I just want us to be real with ourselves and while we can be optomistic- I was just sharing some data that shows history says this team doesnt have the size of a title team.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    Yes, patience is always good. That's why I was against Posey last offseason, it was an impatient move that only made sense to fans who go by emotion. Never do these to appease the fans.

    Anyway, is it too late on Smith? I really having been paying attention lately since it's been so slow. I wonder if the Hornets could make a bigger push now since they just freed up $1-2M for this year.

    I don't see Ainge ever going for that. He didn't want Posey's contract last summer, so I'm not sure why he would now. They need him much less now than they did then bc they have Rasheed.

    Are the Hornets trying to deal Posey, Mo Pete, etc?

    Agree on Ainge but not winning a title after winning one can make you desperate. You think all those guys would have flown out and begged Rasheed after their title year if he was a FA? No way. Same with Posey, they didnt think he was worth paying but who knows now.

    As for Mo Pete, they know he is unmovable. HE has a trade kicker and he couldnt be moved realistically. You will see him in a nice suit all season right on the bench.

    And for Posey, he wont just be dumped for salary purposes. If he gets traded it will be for quality in return. Our FO believes he is an ideal player if not asked to do too much and if JuJu starts this year and Posey only has to play about 20-22 mins he will look like he did at the beginning of last year.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Good post- I agree. I swear, you say a team isnt a Champion and people react like you called them a lottery team. This team is very good as constructed but to become an elite title team, length will have to be added somewhere- either in the frontcourt or on the wings. Again, this is not my opinion as much as it is fact in regards to the longer teams winning the titles. I have seen the numbers crunched by a professional who spent months compiling data and drilled him with a lot of the same things you guys are drilling me with- so I understand the desire to disprove a theory that goes against your current teams makeup. But the reality is that the facts dont lie and some serious length will need to be added to move us from very good to Elite/champion.

    Personally, since I like Thornton and JuJu and find 6'10 SG's and SF's extremely rare- I think the long term answer is Okafor at PF with an Okur/Lambeer type Center who can stretch defenses, but that is my opinion and I am fine knowing most of you will disagree with that- just my opinion.

    The statistical analysis is fact however and I just want us to be real with ourselves and while we can be optomistic- I was just sharing some data that shows history says this team doesnt have the size of a title team.

    I agree that in the past this was the case, just seeing the league get smaller the last few years makes me wonder if this trend will continue. Though history seems to repeat itself with these things, and a C like Okur(maybe even Bargani down the line) with Okafor could do great things and open up things around the whole court for the team. I really don't know at the moment, I guess ill have to wait to the season starts and see how the team plays together. The good thing is we have time and we will have a chance to see how West and Okafor go together and if its not going to plan and we are too small, then we still have a few years and the FO can change their plans. The good thing about this trade is it improved our talent and gave the team several options over the next few years.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Personally, since I like Thornton and JuJu and find 6'10 SG's and SF's extremely rare- I think the long term answer is Okafor at PF with an Okur/Lambeer type Center who can stretch defenses, but that is my opinion and I am fine knowing most of you will disagree with that- just my opinion.
    I'm not sure why you think an Okur would be any better than West? Okur isn't a defensive prescence either. Heck, without looking up the stats, I bet West blocks more shots than Memo does.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    I'm not sure why you think an Okur would be any better than West? Okur isn't a defensive prescence either. Heck, without looking up the stats, I bet West blocks more shots than Memo does.

    Yeah but having a C who can go out to the 3 point line and stretch defenses can do wonders inside. You have the opposing C out of the paint and therefore offensive rebounds increase and blocked shots/contested shots inside decrease. As for Memo's defense it aint great but it is not horrible either - an upgrade over boozers weak defense as I have heard from Jazz fans.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Agree on Ainge but not winning a title after winning one can make you desperate. You think all those guys would have flown out and begged Rasheed after their title year if he was a FA? No way. Same with Posey, they didnt think he was worth paying but who knows now.

    As for Mo Pete, they know he is unmovable. HE has a trade kicker and he couldnt be moved realistically. You will see him in a nice suit all season right on the bench.

    And for Posey, he wont just be dumped for salary purposes. If he gets traded it will be for quality in return. Our FO believes he is an ideal player if not asked to do too much and if JuJu starts this year and Posey only has to play about 20-22 mins he will look like he did at the beginning of last year.
    Posey's role with BOS would drop from 30 minutes or so a game in the playoffs two years ago to about 18 minutes now. What made him valuable was his ability to play the 4 in the fourth quarter. They don't need that now. They can have Marquise Daniels play 10 meaningless minutes, fill in the rest with Eddie House, and be fine.

    If Juju starts and Posey plays 20 minutes, what happens to Peja?

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    Wow, I can't believe CHA is that dumb. I'm just curious if you have any idea on this. Say that Detroit called Charlotte a month ago and tried to acquire Okafor. Since they were under the cap at that time by so much, I believe that DET could have simply shipped them a 2nd draft pick or something to get it done. Do you think Charlotte would have done that? Or are they in love with Chandler that much that they would take him over that? If Charlotte only called the Hornets two weeks ago, I'm wondering if maybe Okafor wasn't available until then?

    What is your buddy's opinion on Okafor after watching him over the past week? I don't exactly watch the Bobcats a ton.

    On another note that doesn't matter anymore, I don't buy that at all that teams had figured out the pick and roll. Freakin' Gregg Poppovich couldn't figure it out over a 7 game series. Noone figured out Stockton and Malone for 20 years. It was a close to unstoppable play, so I don't buy that nonsense at all.

    Watch game 7 again if you can. Pop had that play down- they stopped it when they had to and the rest of the league saw it. It still worked against bad teams this year, but not quality ones. Game 7 was the beginning of the end for that offense.

    My buddy likes Okafor a lot offensively for us. He thinks Okafor can be a more physical Elden Campbell offensively. If you remember, Campbell was good on the blocks for us if single covered, but had no answer if double teamed. That is his biggest concern ofr Okafor offensively, is his decision making when doubled in the post. He doesnt find the open man and gets blocked at a fairly high rate for a center.But if you got West,CP3, Posey and Peja spacin the floor lets say, and Okafor can work the block singled, he can ge us 4-6 points per game TC could never have gotten us in addition to the cheap points TC got because of CP3. So 16 PPG isnt out of the question is his mind.

    As for defense, he says Okafor is much more effective against PF's than Center's, although he could cover both at an above average rate. Overall, though, he is a better team defender than Man on man defender which is good and bad. Good, because that is what Scott emphasizes. He loves smart guys who understand defensive rotations and Okafor is an A minus in that category. But unlike TC at 100 percent he cant just be thrown 1 on 1 verse Duncan or Dwight and be expected to do much more than slow them down slightly.

    But the selling part was the offense and his ability on the block. TC was always left one on one on the block and couldnt be a big enough threat to be doubled or even worried about down there. Teams prayed TC would take that shot. Now, with Okafor, we have a big we can throw the ball down to who is at least a threat. The number 1 priority with him in training camp will be to get him to pass out of the post with efficiency.

  21. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by ryan2709
    Yeah but having a C who can go out to the 3 point line and stretch defenses can do wonders inside. You have the opposing C out of the paint and therefore offensive rebounds increase and blocked shots/contested shots inside decrease. As for Memo's defense it aint great but it is not horrible either - an upgrade over boozers weak defense as I have heard from Jazz fans.
    I agree, but West gives you a little more post offense than Okur does. At least he does against poor defenders. The two are pretty much a push it could be argued.

  22. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    Posey's role with BOS would drop from 30 minutes or so a game in the playoffs two years ago to about 18 minutes now. What made him valuable was his ability to play the 4 in the fourth quarter. They don't need that now. They can have Marquise Daniels play 10 meaningless minutes, fill in the rest with Eddie House, and be fine.

    If Juju starts and Posey plays 20 minutes, what happens to Peja?

    Not saying it will happen- but you cant just use logic to say it wont as evidenced by this trade. If I would have come on here 3 days ago and put this trade as a "trade idea" - what would the reaction have been?

    So although I dont think it will happen, it is hard to get inside the head of some of these GM's and you never know. I just know it is on the table on our side.

    As for Peja, even if JuJu starts- there are still plenty of minutes. First of all, at best, JuJu would be a Mo Pete 07-08 type starter. 24 mins max, not on the court at the end of games, etc. But I am thinking more like 20-22 minutes. Peaj and Posy would share those 28 remaining minutes, plus about 8-10 minutes at backup PF when going small ball and maybe 6-10 minutes at 2 guard with both of them on the court and one as the 2 in a lineup like lets say : CP3, Posy, Peja, West, Okafor- which I would bet would be our end of game lineup if the season started today.

    So that is about 44- 50 minutes for Peja and Posey combined, so still plenty of time for Peja.

  23. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Watch game 7 again if you can. Pop had that play down- they stopped it when they had to and the rest of the league saw it. It still worked against bad teams this year, but not quality ones. Game 7 was the beginning of the end for that offense.

    My buddy likes Okafor a lot offensively for us. He thinks Okafor can be a more physical Elden Campbell offensively. If you remember, Campbell was good on the blocks for us if single covered, but had no answer if double teamed. That is his biggest concern ofr Okafor offensively, is his decision making when doubled in the post. He doesnt find the open man and gets blocked at a fairly high rate for a center.But if you got West,CP3, Posey and Peja spacin the floor lets say, and Okafor can work the block singled, he can ge us 4-6 points per game TC could never have gotten us in addition to the cheap points TC got because of CP3. So 16 PPG isnt out of the question is his mind.

    As for defense, he says Okafor is much more effective against PF's than Center's, although he could cover both at an above average rate. Overall, though, he is a better team defender than Man on man defender which is good and bad. Good, because that is what Scott emphasizes. He loves smart guys who understand defensive rotations and Okafor is an A minus in that category. But unlike TC at 100 percent he cant just be thrown 1 on 1 verse Duncan or Dwight and be expected to do much more than slow them down slightly.

    But the selling part was the offense and his ability on the block. TC was always left one on one on the block and couldnt be a big enough threat to be doubled or even worried about down there. Teams prayed TC would take that shot. Now, with Okafor, we have a big we can throw the ball down to who is at least a threat. The number 1 priority with him in training camp will be to get him to pass out of the post with efficiency.
    CP3, come on man, you're a great poster, but one or two games don't mean jack ****. Chris had a bad shooting game, one or two other guys didn't play well too I'm sure. It had nothing to do with Pop "figuring out" the pick and roll. That's absurd. It's been showed over the years that play is the toughest to stop in basketball when you have the right players doing it. And with a great PG, a super athletic C, and three other good shooters; we had ideal players.

    I actually posted many times in the beginning of last season on this. We ran the pick and roll then against the good teams like SA and CLE, and they couldn't stop it. We went away from it against some bad teams, and lost those games. Anyway, this isn't important anymore since TC is gone, just wanted to bring up that point bc I just think it's another strange Byron Scott theory.

    I think Campbell is a fair comparison for Okafor. Sounds like your friend knows his stuff. Can Okafor beat people with skill in the post though like Campbell did, or is it more with brawn? He doesn't seem like a guy who can catch it "on the block" 8 feet away, take a dribble or two and then do his thing. I've always thought of him as a guy who may need really deep post position in order to score. But like I said, I don't watch the Bobcats much, so I don't know for sure.

    And please, Tyson couldn't hold his own against a Duncan or Dwight. The guy was a foul magnet and would pick up 3 fouls in 5 minutes against guys like that. People remember too much the second half of Game 7 and the great job he did on Duncan then, but the reason we had to double Duncan for 6 and a half games is bc Tyson couldn't stay out of foul trouble against him. Tyson probably got in foul trouble at one of the 3-4 highest rates in the NBA, if I had to guess.

  24. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by gohornets999
    I agree, but West gives you a little more post offense than Okur does. At least he does against poor defenders. The two are pretty much a push it could be argued.
    And in addition to having Okur play the Lambeir role to make my 80's Pistons model dream a reality, you would alsoneed some physical bigs off the bench. Yes that team started Lambeir and Mahorn but had Salley, Rodman, and James Edwards getting Major minutes off the bench- over 65 combined per game. So you had 5 quality bigs- all of whom played tough and nasty in their own way. On this team, we have 1 right now with Okafor, give me a couple more- 1 of whom can stretch defenses like Okur and Lambeir and I will ride with that team. Give me Okur, Okafor, Reggie Evans, Milsap, and Jeff Foster as my ideal front court- not those guys obviously but guys like that. Let Thonton be the gunner he is and keep developing JuJu and that team along with Collison and 1 more scorer on the wings off the bench can get a title IMO.

  25. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3 & 11 others
    Not saying it will happen- but you cant just use logic to say it wont as evidenced by this trade. If I would have come on here 3 days ago and put this trade as a "trade idea" - what would the reaction have been?

    So although I dont think it will happen, it is hard to get inside the head of some of these GM's and you never know. I just know it is on the table on our side.

    As for Peja, even if JuJu starts- there are still plenty of minutes. First of all, at best, JuJu would be a Mo Pete 07-08 type starter. 24 mins max, not on the court at the end of games, etc. But I am thinking more like 20-22 minutes. Peaj and Posy would share those 28 remaining minutes, plus about 8-10 minutes at backup PF when going small ball and maybe 6-10 minutes at 2 guard with both of them on the court and one as the 2 in a lineup like lets say : CP3, Posy, Peja, West, Okafor- which I would bet would be our end of game lineup if the season started today.

    So that is about 44- 50 minutes for Peja and Posey combined, so still plenty of time for Peja.
    Very true on the Okafor point , but Ainge isn't Bobcat Johnson.

    As for the second point, that just reminds me too much of the story we were fed last offseason on Julian getting PT. I insisted that there weren't going to be minutes for him, and that turned out to be the case. I just don't see Scott playing those two players only 22 minutes a game each if they are healthy. Anyway, how many minutes do you have Thornton and Collison playing in your mind? Just curious bc I'd like for them to be out there too.

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