After the smoke has cleared we really aren't that bad

[N.O.Bronco]

Heres my thoughts, were not horrible, but were not good either. We are an average team.

The problem I see, which shouldnt be controversial, is that outside of CP3, the anchors of this team are only going to go downhill. TC has a lingering injury he will probably never recover from, West(while very good still) is not the youngest man out there. Posey is not the same man he was in Miami or even Boston. Peja is on the decline with a lingering back injury and Rasual has most likely peaked. And besides julian and maybe Armstrong, our bench has little promise or upside.

and all of this is wrapped in the fact that we have financial issues and contracts that no one will really want this year, so it hampers our ability to improve.

All these facts point to one conclusion, we are at this point an average team but only because we are lucky enough to have an allstar and one of the best players in the league making up for it. So because of that, we will probably always remain an above 500 team thanks to CP3.

But if this team ever wants to sniff a championship we are going to need a fairly substantial overhaul or a heck of a lot of luck that other teams have severe injuries that happen at just the right time for us to capitalize on.

this my honest assessment

[NIH]

They accomplished 49 wins and a 7th seed, mainly because of CP3 and DX being healthy.

[N.O.Bronco]

My comparison is almost like the Saints the season after the 06 run. Everyone thought they were one or two pieces away. But it turned out they were much further than they thought. it seems to be the same situation with the Hornets.

The problem I see, and what makes me optimistic about the Saints, is that they have a Coach that gets the most out of there players, and isnt scared to make changes (Gregg Williams), and is a good game planner and executioner. A Front Office and scouting department that makes pretty high quality moves and ownership, that while not lavish, is willing to spend to win. My fear is that i just see none of that in this current Hornets regime which makes me scared that the Hornets will just linger and not improve for a long time.

[Eman5805]

The apparent difference between the Saints and Hornets is that while the Saints have a respected, capologiest(is that even a word?) as their GM in Mickey Loomis. I'm not sure Bower is that good of a talent evaluator, and might not be a good wheeler and dealer. And it certainly doesn't look like he's working our cap room well.

[NOLA Brah!]

the saints have finished the last two season 7-9 and 8-8. they needed to revamp their defense and failed at making significant changes until this season in which the jury is still out. it took them two years to do that. the situations are different. the hornets being over the lux tax is not being cheap. they spent money on players, just not wisely. the way contracts are handled differ from the nfl and the nba which factor in how you get better. if you have buyers remorse in the nba while making bad decisions you're stuck. in the nfl you have more wiggle room getting rid of under achieving players.

[NIH]

Give me the Saints FO over the Hornets any day.

[RubberBandCat]

It is going to be a mystery next season.

[CajunHornet]

I keep remembering how good we looked at the beggining of the season. That team hustled on both ends, and our players didn't look like former shades of themselves. This was a season of atriction, and our guys came out the regular season grinder worn out and banged up, due to the weakness of our bench and injuries.

But, if you look at the core, I would put it up against most teams if we were healthy. THe question is, can that happen ever again? I don't think so with Tyson and Peja. That is why it is time to re-tool the team. It sucks b/c the potential was there for greatness, but it wasn't to be.

[luckyman]

A new GM and new coach, would do wonders for the players on our roster, except for TC.

Man, you are a broken record. A broken record of Kenny G.

Get this team a backup center (Diop'ish), backup point guard (Farmar'ish), and the greatest need of alll.....a STARTING SHOOTING GUARD! This is realistically all they can hope to accomplish this off-season before more major moves in 2010.

This won't guarantee a championship next year, but a definite top 4 seed.

[luckyman]

My comparison is almost like the Saints the season after the 06 run. Everyone thought they were one or two pieces away. But it turned out they were much further than they thought. it seems to be the same situation with the Hornets.

The problem I see, and what makes me optimistic about the Saints, is that they have a Coach that gets the most out of there players, and isnt scared to make changes (Gregg Williams), and is a good game planner and executioner. A Front Office and scouting department that makes pretty high quality moves and ownership, that while not lavish, is willing to spend to win. My fear is that i just see none of that in this current Hornets regime which makes me scared that the Hornets will just linger and not improve for a long time.

Please don't say Sean Payton gets the most out of his players and is a good game planner. Must I remind you of the NFCCG? The classic end-around? The constant 5 yard pass plays 60 times per game?

Let's not forget the waisted 1st round pick on offense when the needs were screaming for defense.

The Saints have been given time to correct their mistakes without the fan vitriol for some reason. Let's grant the same to the Hornets. The sky is not falling on a 50 win team.

[Eman5805]

Please don't say Sean Payton gets the most out of his players and is a good game planner. Must I remind you of the NFCCG? The classic end-around? The constant 5 yard pass plays 60 times per game?

Let's not forget the waisted 1st round pick on offense when the needs were screaming for defense.

The Saints have been given time to correct their mistakes without the fan vitriol for some reason. Let's grant the same to the Hornets. The sky is not falling on a 50 win team.

And must I remind you of him dominating his mentor to the tune of 42-17 and outdueling Andy Reid twice? Yeah, he's made mistakes, but what young coach doesn't? He doesn't get the most out of his players? Who was Lance Moore before Payton and his offense? Who was Pierre Thomas? Don't even think that it's all Brees that makes those players that good. And you know...he does kind of orchestrate the #1 offense in the NFL. >_>

[West Coast Hornet]

Seems like the other prevailing logic here is: "See! We actually suck! See how much we lost by? Trade EVERYONE!!!!!! I TOLD YOU!!!! HA! You rose colored glasses wearing DIEHARDS!!!! WAKE UP! We suck this year, and will suck next year too!!!! I'M A REALIST!!!"

This is flat out ridiculous. This stuff isn't going on here. Apparently, you are a glass is half-full kind of guy. That's great. Be positive if you want. Neekie's post on page 1 I think sums things up quite well. People are willing to recognize the regular season accomplishments while also taking the team to task for what happened in the last 4-6 weeks or so of the season. So let's keep some semblance of perspective here, please. This isn't a follow-the-team blindly kind of board. Sorry.

Speaking of the Saints, they just drafted a punter.

[PELICANSFAN]

This is flat out ridiculous. This stuff isn't going on here. Apparently, you are a glass is half-full kind of guy. That's great. Be positive if you want. Neekie's post on page 1 I think sums things up quite well. People are willing to recognize the regular season accomplishments while also taking the team to task for what happened in the last 4-6 weeks or so of the season. So let's keep some semblance of perspective here, please. This isn't a follow-the-team blindly kind of board. Sorry.

Speaking of the Saints, they just drafted a punter.

But by the same token, some are acting as if we need to cut everyone and fire everyone. There needs to be a middle ground.

[NOLA Brah!]

Speaking of the Saints, they just drafted a punter.

just to reiterate, they drafted a punter in the 5th round and traded up and with a pick next year for him!

[luckyman]

And must I remind you of him dominating his mentor to the tune of 42-17 and outdueling Andy Reid twice? Yeah, he's made mistakes, but what young coach doesn't? He doesn't get the most out of his players? Who was Lance Moore before Payton and his offense? Who was Pierre Thomas? Don't even think that it's all Brees that makes those players that good. And you know...he does kind of orchestrate the #1 offense in the NFL. >_>

Dallas was not a good team that year. Not a good comparison to make. How'd he do against Baltimore? Tennessee? Tampa Bay? Any top 5 defense?

D. West was not an all-star before Scott arrived. If Peirre Thomas makes the pro-bowl this season, there is your comparison.

Secondly, if you can "orchestrate" a #1 offense at the expense of the defense (he is the HEAD COACH, not offensive coodinator), that doesn't speak well. The Saints have gotten "Denver'd" by many teams for that reason. Remember opening night against the Colts?

My main point is that the Hornets need to tweak their roster just like the Saints and deserve the time to do so. It's the Hornets that have made the playoffs and finished WELL above .500, which cannot be said for the Saints.

They know what they need to fix and they will find a way to get it done. If the losing, mediocre football team is given time, then definitely the winning, above average basketball one deserves the same.

[West Coast Hornet]

But by the same token, some are acting as if we need to cut everyone and fire everyone. There needs to be a middle ground.

I said it in jest, for example. Why? Because it was just a disastrous series and a disastrous end to the season. I think it is legit to be concerned about almost everyone on the roster, what they bring, what's going on with them, and what is their future. IMHO, the org has some serious re-tooling to do, but I realize they are limited in what they can probably do. Above all else, I think a lot of just don't want to see more of the same next year.

[NIH]

To echo what WCH said, this team will grow stale to me if moves are not made. I don't want to see the same one dimensional players, mistakes, motivational issues, etc. being at the forefront next year. I really don't.

[Eman5805]

just to reiterate, they drafted a punter in the 5th round and traded up and with a pick next year for him!

They gave up a 7th that probably wouldn't have made the team and another 5th round pick. If this guy can beat out Pakulak, all is gravy. If he doesn't, they release him back to the wild. Wouldn't be the first time the Saints traded for someone then cut him a few months later.

Dallas was not a good team that year. Not a good comparison to make. How'd he do against Baltimore? Tennessee? Tampa Bay? Any top 5 defense?

D. West was not an all-star before Scott arrived. If Peirre Thomas makes the pro-bowl this season, there is your comparison.

Secondly, if you can "orchestrate" a #1 offense at the expense of the defense (he is the HEAD COACH, not offensive coodinator), that doesn't speak well. The Saints have gotten "Denver'd" by many teams for that reason. Remember opening night against the Colts?

My main point is that the Hornets need to tweak their roster just like the Saints and deserve the time to do so. It's the Hornets that have made the playoffs and finished WELL above .500, which cannot be said for the Saints.

They know what they need to fix and they will find a way to get it done. If the losing, mediocre football team is given time, then definitely the winning, above average basketball one deserves the same.

Pierre Thomas averages about 4.8 ypc. If he can keep that up and gets the carries, he'll be a Pro-Bowler.

Payton isn't the offensive coordinator? When did this happen? Yes, being the head coach means defense should be just as important to him as his offense, but only a few coaches can coach up an offense and a defense, and when they do rarely are any one of them very good. Payton is still an offensive guy primarily. He's never had any experience coaching a defense. So, to take care of the D, he brought in Gregg Williams. A guy who has three times orchestrated a top 5 defense with 3 different teams. And now the Saints' defense is his to mold and shape.

But, anyway as far as the Hornets go, I'm all with you. We need to do some roster changing, and we aren't bottom feeders. It won't take much to get this team on track again, no matter what the score differential was. Coaching change? I'm not against it, but I'm not really for it either. GM change? I'm definitely leaning towards "Yes".


And also, I don't follow blindly, but up to that point, that's just how it seemed things were going. Like what'shisname said, there didn't seem to be any middle ground being upheld, no one saying we were just average and not bad...

[beezm]

Not turning this into a Sean Payton discussion but.........

And you know...he does kind of orchestrate the #1 offense in the NFL. >_>

Agreed. But with the post you were replying to :

Must I remind you of the NFCCG?

This..

I don't think I will EVER EVER ever EVER ENVNERLNELNL!N!! ... you get the point ... ever..

Forgive SP for NOT running Deuce more in that game, it was a ridiculous amount of pass plays to runs in a bone chilling cold.

Anyway! Back on topic.

I definitely agree that something needs to be done this offseason, I don't think many of us aren't in agreement. I will however, not grow stale on this team if next year turns out to not have a huge rotation of players, it's not like they have much to work with this offseason unfortunately.

[SuperBMG]

We aren't that bad but we have lost that special something that makes you better than other teams of equal talent. I don't know when it happened exactly but this current roster, which is more talented than last year's roster, is just not together anymore.

no, we're better than teams of equal talent, the problem is we don't have much talent