Harvey are your inside sources with the Hornets at least willing to admit that selling a cheap young player and instead signing over the hill James Posey was a horrible misstep?
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He was averaging a double-double in the 2 weeks before his injury and publicly stated that he was more disappointed in his slow start than anybody else. He was obviously starting to turn things around.Originally Posted by Harvey Hornet
I don't see how you can say he's going to have chronic injury problems. He landed squarely on a dude's ankle. How is that a chronic injury problem? He hasn't missed any games other than that for injuries and he doesn't have a history of injury.
Harvey are your inside sources with the Hornets at least willing to admit that selling a cheap young player and instead signing over the hill James Posey was a horrible misstep?
horrible should have been spelled H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E
in 2 years we will still be hamstrung thanks to that stupid signing
Contributor
Thumbs up on the Chandler trade
Posted by Al Sidhom February 17, 2009 4:24PM
Five reasons why the Hornets just got better-
1. Salary Dump- $12 million off of the cap for next year, we pay no luxury tax and give ourselves a better chance of staying in New Orleans for the long haul.
2. The CP3 factor- Tyson Chandler was considered a bust before he came here. Chris Paul makes his teammates better. Chris Wilcox has a better offensive game and bangs a little harder, I think fans will be surprised about how well he plays. He averaged about the same stats in OKC as Chandler did here. Look for all his stats to go up, he will be playing with a better team and be asked to do less.
3. More depth- Joe Smith is a solid backup for center and power forward. David West is probably disappointed today but will be elated a week from now when he realizes how much more help he has in the front court.
4. We are a small market team- You do not pay a guy scoring 8 points per game, $12 million a year. You build from within, Have we learned our lesson yet Jeff Bower? No more Peja, Posey or Mo Pete contracts, no need to make a splash anymore. We have an MVP talent, players will want to come here for less.
The best thing we could do is try and replicate what the Spurs have done. Look at their bench this year, they dropped Brent Barry and Robert Horry and added first round pick George Hill and minor free agent signing Roger Mason Jr. Why can't the Hornets just step up their scouting department and go this route.
5. We were not going to win with the team we had- It's a reality fans refuse to admit but GMs have to assess. I think we signed Posey hoping it would transform us into a dominant team. That never happened. Yes, we have had injuries but we were not looking the part even at full strength. I could go the route of critiquing all the moves Jeff Bower has made to supposedly be "forced" to make the Chandler trade today. But you can play that game with every GM. The hope here is that lessons have been learned and that the Hornets are now stronger moving forward.
with peja, west, cp3, and posey all on the roster, almost by themselves, we're up against the salary cap
until peja comes off the books (after 2011), we won't have any flexibility to sign free agents
also, cp3/west/posey alone account for about $30M in salary with a cap of $55M or so, so if our roster ONLY consisted of these 3 players, we could afford 1 max-level free agent after 2011
1. that salary dump doesn't help things out other than shinn's pockets
Thumbs up on the Chandler trade
Posted by Al Sidhom February 17, 2009 4:24PM
Five reasons why the Hornets just got better-
1. Salary Dump- $12 million off of the cap for next year, we pay no luxury tax and give ourselves a better chance of staying in New Orleans for the long haul.
2. The CP3 factor- Tyson Chandler was considered a bust before he came here. Chris Paul makes his teammates better. Chris Wilcox has a better offensive game and bangs a little harder, I think fans will be surprised about how well he plays. He averaged about the same stats in OKC as Chandler did here. Look for all his stats to go up, he will be playing with a better team and be asked to do less.
3. More depth- Joe Smith is a solid backup for center and power forward. David West is probably disappointed today but will be elated a week from now when he realizes how much more help he has in the front court.
4. We are a small market team- You do not pay a guy scoring 8 points per game, $12 million a year. You build from within, Have we learned our lesson yet Jeff Bower? No more Peja, Posey or Mo Pete contracts, no need to make a splash anymore. We have an MVP talent, players will want to come here for less.
The best thing we could do is try and replicate what the Spurs have done. Look at their bench this year, they dropped Brent Barry and Robert Horry and added first round pick George Hill and minor free agent signing Roger Mason Jr. Why can't the Hornets just step up their scouting department and go this route.
5. We were not going to win with the team we had- It's a reality fans refuse to admit but GMs have to assess. I think we signed Posey hoping it would transform us into a dominant team. That never happened. Yes, we have had injuries but we were not looking the part even at full strength. I could go the route of critiquing all the moves Jeff Bower has made to supposedly be "forced" to make the Chandler trade today. But you can play that game with every GM. The hope here is that lessons have been learned and that the Hornets are now stronger moving forward.
2. great, we will have wilcox for about 30 games and then he'll be gone
3. great, we will have smith for about 30 games and then he'll be gone
4. only really over the hill FAs or guys without markets take less money
5. we're much weaker and won't see any light until after 2011, and even then it won't be that bright or that much
Contributor
Posey's age was always a concern, but seemed to be the best move available to them at the time. They took a shot...they thought they were close. No one is happy with what has happened. Everyone thought we were Finals contenders...but we aren't for a number of reasons. Time to shake things up a little.
It's obvious TC wasn't going to help us much now....and I think that will carry over into the future. Keeping him doesn't help us in any way. We'll be virtually the same team right now by plugging in Wilcox and Smith. We'll be better off not trying to trade him later....with the injury problem becoming more of an issue to other teams. No matter what our current payroll situation is, it's better by not having 10M+ committed to a guy who won't be playing or playing all that well.
Does anyone remember how Magloire went from being an All Star to a nothing so quick? Chronic leg/ankle/foot problems can do that to big men.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the way things have turned out, but under the circumstances, we are doing the right thing for the long term...and the short term shouldn't be effected all that much. While life deals you lemons (TC), make lemonaid (Wilcox and Smith).
A couple things I'd like to address.
1) What has Chandler done to help this year?
If you check the team record Hornets are 10-9 with out Chandler in the lineup this season (Including tonights win). They were 21-11 with him on the floor.
Debunk that all you want, or make excuses for why that is, but the fact remains. New Orleans won more games with Chandler than without.
If Wilcox and Smith added to the team get things back on track, and the team wins 50 games, then maybe Chandler doesn't matter. but if the Hornets go 16-15 the rest of the way and finish as a 7th or 8th seed, then maybe some will see that Chandler's value to the team extends beyond the boxscore.
2) There seem to be a lot of posts that are insinuating Chandler was difficult to get along with, or not liked by teammates, or certainly won't be missed in the locker room etc... So if this is true, why are players coming out saying things like
Chris Paul
Rasul Butler"I'm going to miss him big time. That was my big fella," Paul said after the Hornets beat Oklahoma City 100-98 Tuesday night. "I feel like everyone always talked about how much better I made him, but he made me a much better player. Without him, I'm probably not the player that I am now. He instilled so much confidence in me."
It's the NBA, it's a business. Trades like this happen, but if people think that this trade makes the Hornets a better basketball team, I think they'll find that they are sorely mistaken."It's a little bit of a shock to me. Tyson was a great teammate, a great asset to our team," Butler said. "This is nothing against Wilcox or Joe Smith, but we'll definitely miss Tyson."
1. Chandler was not overpaid. Stop repeating this lie.
2. This salary dump has nothing to do with playing in New Orleans, it has everything to do with Bower's idiotic contracts to overpaid veterans.
3. The Hornets didn't even get ONE of the FIVE picks that OKC has. That's horrible.
4. The Hornets dumped Chandler to a Western Conference Rival who is poised to be strong (should have traded him to Detroit for Sheed) and we'll face him twice as often as if he were in the East.
5. We were good enough to get to at least the 2nd round with a healthy Chandler, perhaps farther. The Hornets had the 2nd and 3rd best record in the West (even with Chandler's slow start) until the injury bug hit.
6. Wilcox and Smith are irrelevant. They are gone next year.
we're only renting wilcox and smith
and if tyson stayed hurt, insurance pays for his salary anyway
and if our GM realy thought we were that close to winning it all, he should have addressed our weaknesses and signed a slashing/scoring 2 or a backup big man, not james posey.
Contributor
Great stuff from the blogger.
Contributor
A TP writer agreeing with a Hornets move? GET RIGHT OUT OF TOWN.
if it were only true or relevant
Contributor
You can stop quoting me and responding to me right now. You don't like what I post, ignore it. I'm not going to play the back and forth game with you. I'd suggest moving on.
Contributor
Chandler was very overpaid. Wilcox makes half as much and produces almost equally as much while playing 35% less with an inferior point guard. Simply put, TC isn't the player he was last year or the year before. And his contract, like Peja's was killing us for the production. Just so happened that he had enough value to be moved. Nobody is going to trade for Peja before 2011. We're stuck with him.
Contributor
I've been playing that game all day and it's gotten really old.
Contributor
He was the only one. So much for your agenda angle.
Contributor
Trust me, it won't continue. There are a couple of guys on my radar...and if they don't bring up their game, they'll be gone.
Someone else thinks we made a good move.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,142055
This is because Wilcox is still on his rookie contract. He'll make nearly as much as Tyson next season and he's not CLOSE to being as good of a player.
Tyson is underpaid, not overpaid. In fact, the only guys on our team who are overpaid are Peja, MoPete, and Posey. And only Peja is GROSSLY overpaid.
CP3, David West, Tyson, Rasual are all underpaid vets.
Contributor
Nobody is upset with Wilcox, he's more than an adequate replacement. He will be too expensive for the team to re-sign though and we will be left with no center.
I beg to differ about how the hornets will do this yr in the playoffs. All of the teams other than the lakers, the hornets can beat in a 7 game series. We do have a top defense in the league. We all know the lakers look big and bad, but honestly they dont really beat the hornets by much other than the second time they played us (which by the way had some ghost fouls against us). We r still a contender, especially if we can get butler and peja going in the same game.
Contributor
Good find.
?
because i call this trade what it is (a salary dump that won't make things any more flexible) i'm "on the radar?"
i'm not being abrasive or offensive
i had a thread deleted that only explained that this trade doesn't make things more flexible, with valid reasoning, and it was based in fact. that was confusing
Contributor
I still don't see him being "too" expensive. First, he's entering free agency a year too early. With this economy and the big payday coming in 2010, I don't think the offers will be out to him like some here think. He was a backup averaging 19 minutes per game on a 13 win team. Not sure why that is but it isn't conducive to earning your big payday.
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