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Thread: Oh no, the sky is falling . . .

  1. #1
    momentary lapse of re-brand NYKF Hornet's Avatar
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    Oh no, the sky is falling . . .

    Get a grip on yourselves.

    I can't believe the amount of crying we are seeing here right now. Put yourself in the other GMs' place . . . would you trade away all star talent for BD? Would you be willing to take that risk, considering your job will depend on it? Who would you give up . . . KG, Kobe? At this point I don't think we could have gotten Wade or even other lesser all stars. We got market value, value that BD created with his attitude and risk of further injury.

    Can anyone here promise BD will play an entire season again? How do you feel about his injuries? Is he the same player that he was in CLT, or even his first year here?

    It's easy to take shots at Bristow, Shinn, the FO, etc . . . but put yourself in their position. Nothing they did made BD happy, and they certainly couldn't keep him healthy. I have no idea why so many people want this guy when he didn't want to be here to start with. Remember that when you are crying over BD's trade, HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE!

    So sit back, cry all you want and compare the Hornets to the Saints. In the long run this deal will make the Hornets better. Better yet, follow the Warriors and jump back on the bandwagon when this team is a contender again. The Warriors can always use more fans.

    The Hornets are our franchise, and now we are no longer a one man team. Give the FO a chance here, it's not like teams were falling all over each other for BD's services. We got what the market would allow, that's not the Hornets fault.

  2. #2
    But you got to admit, just swapping firstrounders is kind of a bummer.

  3. #3
    Banned THAJCODE's Avatar
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    Well written, and good points. I think it's tough for many fans (myself included) to take an outside perspective and realize how BD's stock has simply bombed over the course of this season.

    The truth is, this could've Mashburn'ed out of control very quickly (it already had begun to I think) and Bristow & Co. are simply trying to cut the losses as best they could.

    We're pretty much garuanteed a top 3 pick--we'll get our Bogut or our Chris Paul or pretty much whoever we want. Again, it's tough to swallow, but for those of you (us) looking at this in doom & gloom light, try to see the big picture...

  4. #4
    Draft Pick davebuzz's Avatar
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    Well said, NYKF! Well said.

    I'm reserving judgment on the trade until I see Baron play on a consistent basis, which probably won't be for a long time!

    davebuzz

  5. #5
    momentary lapse of re-brand NYKF Hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigEasy
    But you got to admit, just swapping firstrounders is kind of a bummer.
    Not for me, because I don't put so much stock into the draft. Given a choice I rather have a FA than another pick. There is too much risk surrounding draft picks, at least this way we have a better shot at a top 3 pick. That is enough, rebuild in FA.

    The truth is that BD's fans wouldn't be happy with anyone. This summer when the BD/Shaq trade was rumored, fans said BD was worth more than Shaq! Amazing.

    If you put yourselves in the other team's position, would you trade away your all stars for BD? I don't think anyone here would do it if their job depended on it. BD will be lucky if he can play a full season again. He certainly isn't as good as he was in CLT (or his first year here).

    I don't think this trade was the worst thing in the world for us. I will say this . . .

    If anyone here loves BD that much, then become a Warriors fan, they can certainly use the support. I'm a Hornets fan, and I refuse to believe BD is bigger than the franchise.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by THAJCODE
    The truth is, this could've Mashburn'ed out of control very quickly (it already had begun to I think) and Bristow & Co. are simply trying to cut the losses as best they could.
    Thats the funny part in it ... when Mash situation got out of hand, people cried because the FO didn't do anything. Now they cut their losses and got rid of BD before this turns into another Mash situation (and get rid of Mash too in the process) and people are crying again.

    Nobody knows now for sure if we or GS got the better in this deal ... only time will tell.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NYKF Hornet
    Not for me, because I don't put so much stock into the draft. Given a choice I rather have a FA than another pick. There is too much risk surrounding draft picks, at least this way we have a better shot at a top 3 pick. That is enough, rebuild in FA.

    The truth is that BD's fans wouldn't be happy with anyone. This summer when the BD/Shaq trade was rumored, fans said BD was worth more than Shaq! Amazing.

    If you put yourselves in the other team's position, would you trade away your all stars for BD? I don't think anyone here would do it if their job depended on it. BD will be lucky if he can play a full season again. He certainly isn't as good as he was in CLT (or his first year here).

    I don't think this trade was the worst thing in the world for us. I will say this . . .

    If anyone here loves BD that much, then become a Warriors fan, they can certainly use the support. I'm a Hornets fan, and I refuse to believe BD is bigger than the franchise.

    Hey ... I am not saying this was the worst trade that could happen, just that I would have liked an additional pick, thats all.

  8. #8
    this has to be a move to free up cap space. What does this do for cap space next year , to sign a big time FA?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKF Hornet
    Get a grip on yourselves.

    I can't believe the amount of crying we are seeing here right now. Put yourself in the other GMs' place . . . would you trade away all star talent for BD? Would you be willing to take that risk, considering your job will depend on it? Who would you give up . . . KG, Kobe? At this point I don't think we could have gotten Wade or even other lesser all stars. We got market value, value that BD created with his attitude and risk of further injury.

    Can anyone here promise BD will play an entire season again? How do you feel about his injuries? Is he the same player that he was in CLT, or even his first year here?

    It's easy to take shots at Bristow, Shinn, the FO, etc . . . but put yourself in their position. Nothing they did made BD happy, and they certainly couldn't keep him healthy. I have no idea why so many people want this guy when he didn't want to be here to start with. Remember that when you are crying over BD's trade, HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE!

    So sit back, cry all you want and compare the Hornets to the Saints. In the long run this deal will make the Hornets better. Better yet, follow the Warriors and jump back on the bandwagon when this team is a contender again. The Warriors can always use more fans.

    The Hornets are our franchise, and now we are no longer a one man team. Give the FO a chance here, it's not like teams were falling all over each other for BD's services. We got what the market would allow, that's not the Hornets fault.
    Well put...

    The problem is, the market is not going anywhere...if the cards weren't in our favor, fold and wait for the next deck..

    If the goal was to get Baron's contract off the books, that's fine...

    That's also not acceptable to many fans who regard him as out best player. Our best player off the books to clear up cap space...
    There's no guarantee's in any of this...but what we know now is that we lost our best player for nothing...that is an extremely dificult pill to swallow...

    This man asked to be traded before the season started and 5 months later we get Speedy Claxton for him...the front office has to consider that a failure, if no one else does...
    Boss

  10. #10
    Charter Member Contributor PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BossBruce
    Well put...

    The problem is, the market is not going anywhere...if the cards weren't in our favor, fold and wait for the next deck..

    If the goal was to get Baron's contract off the books, that's fine...

    That's also not acceptable to many fans who regard him as out best player. Our best player off the books to clear up cap space...
    There's no guarantee's in any of this...but what we know now is that we lost our best player for nothing...that is an extremely dificult pill to swallow...

    This man asked to be traded before the season started and 5 months later we get Speedy Claxton for him...the front office has to consider that a failure, if no one else does...
    Well said. We acquired a PG who has been injured more than BD. God forbid anyone have a dissenting view!

  11. #11
    Banned THAJCODE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigEasy
    Nobody knows now for sure if we or GS got the better in this deal ... only time will tell.
    ...and that's the bottom line.

  12. #12
    momentary lapse of re-brand NYKF Hornet's Avatar
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    The reason I have these opinions is because I really believe BD did not want to be here anymore. We were forced into this.

    Now, had BD been a real leader and not so injured . . . I don't think we would have traded BD, to anyone for anything. Instead we had to shop him around a league that saw his value as much lower then we probably expected.

    What were our options? To me our options are based on BD's attitude and desire to play for us . . . he didn't want to play here and couldn't stay healthy so we got as much value as BD is worth to other teams.

    I don't blame BD fans for being upset, that is what you get when you only cheer for one person over the franchise.

  13. #13
    The Franchise rainwater's Avatar
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    I really don't think the Hornets are any worse or better off. The trade got BD out of here, but the question is what are the Hornets going to do? The Mash trade free'd up enough cap space that they could of used for FA. The BD trade got them a top 4 pick. So in all honesty, we are talking atleast 2 or 3 years to get this thing in the right direction.

  14. #14
    The Franchise
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKF Hornet
    Get a grip on yourselves.

    I can't believe the amount of crying we are seeing here right now. Put yourself in the other GMs' place . . . would you trade away all star talent for BD? Would you be willing to take that risk, considering your job will depend on it? Who would you give up . . . KG, Kobe? At this point I don't think we could have gotten Wade or even other lesser all stars. We got market value, value that BD created with his attitude and risk of further injury.

    Can anyone here promise BD will play an entire season again? How do you feel about his injuries? Is he the same player that he was in CLT, or even his first year here?

    It's easy to take shots at Bristow, Shinn, the FO, etc . . . but put yourself in their position. Nothing they did made BD happy, and they certainly couldn't keep him healthy. I have no idea why so many people want this guy when he didn't want to be here to start with. Remember that when you are crying over BD's trade, HE DIDN'T WANT TO BE HERE!

    So sit back, cry all you want and compare the Hornets to the Saints. In the long run this deal will make the Hornets better. Better yet, follow the Warriors and jump back on the bandwagon when this team is a contender again. The Warriors can always use more fans.

    The Hornets are our franchise, and now we are no longer a one man team. Give the FO a chance here, it's not like teams were falling all over each other for BD's services. We got what the market would allow, that's not the Hornets fault.
    Another GREAT post, thank you NYKF Hornet!!!!

  15. #15
    momentary lapse of re-brand NYKF Hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainwater
    I really don't think the Hornets are any worse or better off. The trade got BD out of here, but the question is what are the Hornets going to do? The Mash trade free'd up enough cap space that they could of used for FA. The BD trade got them a top 4 pick. So in all honesty, we are talking atleast 2 or 3 years to get this thing in the right direction.
    That's the trick . . . translating these deals today for better FAs in the summer.

    I've been saying for a while now that it should take about 3 years to rebuild this team in a winner. If it doesn't work, we fire the FO and Scott and start fresh. At best we don't have to work around BD's deal anymore, and we don't have to worry about his injuries either.

  16. #16
    The Franchise rainwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKF Hornet
    That's the trick . . . translating these deals today for better FAs in the summer.

    I've been saying for a while now that it should take about 3 years to rebuild this team in a winner. If it doesn't work, we fire the FO and Scott and start fresh. At best we don't have to work around BD's deal anymore, and we don't have to worry about his injuries either.
    I would be totally shocked if they got any big name free agent this summer. I think they would of been better off getting more draft picks that they could use to draft more young talent or use for trade leverage.

  17. #17
    momentary lapse of re-brand NYKF Hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainwater
    I would be totally shocked if they got any big name free agent this summer. I think they would of been better off getting more draft picks that they could use to draft more young talent or use for trade leverage.
    To me, draft picks are too risky. I rather not tie up our cap space in first round contracts . . . that reminds me too much of how the Hawks and Bulls rebuild.

    I agree getting FAs will be tough, but then again BD wasn't helping us get FAs either. At least now we have a shot at them. This is why we hired Reed and Scott, hopefully they will be able to sell this franchise to some top guys out there.

    I can promise you this . . . we were not going to be contenders next season with BD.

  18. #18
    Charter Member Contributor PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainwater
    The BD trade got them a top 4 pick.
    They did not get a pick in the deal.

  19. #19
    Drop me off in New Orleans CapitolHornet45's Avatar
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    HH made a good point. Cap space doesnt HAVE to be used in FA. With us being 20+ million under another team can trade us a player who theyre looking to clear off the books without us having to match the salary or give up any players at all. That might be a better route to go because of the shallow FA pool this year.

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    I think the question here was did the front office fail with this deal?

    The following two criterion will answer that question IMO:

    1) Did the Hornets get fair market franchise value in return for Baron
    2) Were their non-personnel factors that postively impact the franchise

    The answer to #1 is No...I'm all for debates, but I don't think there is any disputing that...Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton does not cut it in my book.

    The answer to #2 is yes...We freed up some money, got rid of someone who had no desire to be here and we get to see more of an assessment of Dickau...

    I don't think anybody is in dissagreement...Just some are more disturbed by the answer to #1...

    The five months in between Baron requesting a trade and the trading deadline...all we could get was Speedy Claxton? That is an absolute failure by the front office...

    Will the freed up cap space and removal of a bad seed benefit the Hornets of the future? Your guess is as good as mine...

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by HORNETSFAN
    They did not get a pick in the deal.
    What he means is ... both us and GS suck this year, and one of us is definitly in the top 4.

  22. #22
    momentary lapse of re-brand NYKF Hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BossBruce
    I think the question here was did the front office fail with this deal?

    The following two criterion will answer that question IMO:

    1) Did the Hornets get fair market franchise value in return for Baron
    2) Were their non-personnel factors that postively impact the franchise

    The answer to #1 is No...I'm all for debates, but I don't think there is any disputing that...Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton does not cut it in my book.

    The answer to #2 is yes...We freed up some money, got rid of someone who had no desire to be here and we get to see more of an assessment of Dickau...

    I don't think anybody is in dissagreement...Just some are more disturbed by the answer to #1...

    The five months in between Baron requesting a trade and the trading deadline...all we could get was Speedy Claxton? That is an absolute failure by the front office...

    Will the freed up cap space and removal of a bad seed benefit the Hornets of the future? Your guess is as good as mine...
    1) I think we were all misinformed as to BD's real league wide value. I thought we could get an all star for him, I was wrong. His attitude and injuries were too risky for other GM's to take a chance on him. Honestly, if I were a GM I don't think I would put my job on the line for BD . . . would anyone here do that as an NBA GM?

    I agree Speedy is not equal value, but then again teams were not offering anything better. At least this way we have a real shot to rebuild without BD's "help" or advice.

    2) Yes. We are a TEAM again, not a one man show. I got tired of reading over and over again how we didn't have enough talent to make BD great. I think it's time to start over with guys who deserve max contracts and can play more than 20 or so games in a season.

    Just think . . . no more trainer drama, agent demands, star complaints, or winning in spite of everyone else in the franchise. Trading a star is never popular, I'm starting to wonder how big a star BD really is. He couldn't get us nationally televised games anyway, his worth according to the leauge was Dale and Speedy. I thought we could do better, but there are some things fans just don't know. BD didn't want to be here anyway, how long were we going to keep trying to force him into being a leader and teammate.

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