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Akshun, You bring up good points about the attributes BD brought to the table. I"m bringing up the bad. This season, had Baron conducted himself different, I don't know that it would have made a difference. It was still the wrong thing to do. Shinn made a huge commitment to him. They wanted him to be a leader on and off the floor. Thats not happening. When he should have tried to be a claming influence to the situations at hand, he was more of a menace.
Off the floor, he was late for meetings, travel, didn't listen to his coach, etc. On the floor, he didn't listen to his coach. He ran BD's offense and did what he wanted when he wanted. If this the way a team leader should conduct himself? Come on, this is easy to understand...
How do we know BD is the guy Shinn was talking about? Well, it's not Mash. Thats for sure, Mash is a goner. Who else on the team carries BD's kind of clout? You know, would it matter if Shammond Williams didn't like Fratello? Does it need to be spelled out? Plus, I've mad a few calls and it's with out a doubt Baron. Take it or leave it...
He needs to be setting a good example, not a bad one. He needs to be a calming influence, not part of the chaos. This is really easy to understand...Originally posted by CC_Hornet
I agree. Even though he is the best athlete on the team and one of the best in the NBA, I do not think he should think he's above everyone. He needs to toe the line like everybody else or send him packing too. That's the trouble with these young guys suddenly getting all this max money.
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Originally posted by BayouHornet
It better not be Baron because I am already losing respect for him for his antics this season.Seems to have turned into "dump on Baron Day."
Do you condone his attitude? The " I will do what I want " and " I don't want to play for that coach " .Originally posted by HORNETSFAN
It's pathetic.
Here you go, the entire transcript of today's press conference.
http://www.nba.com/hornets/news/coac...ipt040507.html
Only Floyd was fired, everyone else is still on staff.
That wasn't the idea HF, but Shinn did bring up the issue and we know who he's talking about. Who's team is this? Shinn's or Baron's? I think it's a legit conversation. Shinn certainly felt like it was important to say. He didn't bring it up for the hell of it. Heck, Floyd's firing isn't big news anyway...Originally posted by HORNETSFAN
I'll take it ...Originally posted by Harvey Hornet
Plus, I've mad a few calls and it's with out a doubt Baron. Take it or leave it...... Now, do we know which coach it is/was who is so high in the pecking order and not liked by Baron? Fratello?
And on a side note ... We all have witnessed, what should be done with a player who is not happy with the coaching change. Last year in Indy, when Thomas got fired, O'Neal went nuts, but Bird basically told him "live with it". Well ... thats not exactly the same situation as with the Hornets, but this is the way it should be. If Baron doesnt like the coach, too bad ... but he should learn to live with it.
Just my 2 cents.
TBE
This is important to consider TBE--good point as well. O'Neal came back from his offseason tantrums and turned in a career year. I have high hopes for Baron this year, on & off the court.
George Shinn: "I know we’re going into a challenging conference in the West. We’re going to have to get real good. Not just good, but real good. And we’re going to bust our butts to make that happen. Give us a chance and if we don’t do it then kick us in the rear. "
I agree and we sure will kick you in the rear if you don't "make it happen".
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All of this would be understand if I personally disliked Davis or if I believed that he was some kind of hoodlum, but I don't. I remember Davis missing the breakfast meeting in Washington. Floyd dealt with it by benching Baron, and Baron sat. When he got into the game, he played to the top of his game, and almost brought us back to win it. Afterwards, he admitted that he was wrong, acknowledged that he should have listened to his coach, and refused to say anything bad about Floyd in spite of baiting questions being asked by reporters.Originally posted by Harvey Hornet
Off the floor, he was late for meetings, travel, didn't listen to his coach, etc. On the floor, he didn't listen to his coach. He ran BD's offense and did what he wanted when he wanted. If this the way a team leader should conduct himself? Come on, this is easy to understand...
BTW, I didn't know that the high pick-and-roll was Baron's offense. I thought Floyd brought that with him from Chicago. I guess I was wrong.
In any event, I am done with this back-and-forth about Baron Davis. It is making my head tired. You have enough people on this board who readily accept what you say, and it's obvious that Baron Davis is your next target. I'm not going to change that. The stories, I mean news, will undoubtedly get more interesting, to say the least. I do wish, however, that we could spend a little time on this board focusing on what we see and what is important, and not spend so much time in the world of speculation and innuendo.
telling it like it is -- akshun
The board generally decides what is discussed and what isn't. Whether it's on the court accomplishments or behind the scenes buzz, it's all fair game.Originally posted by akshun
I do wish, however, that we could spend a little time on this board focusing on what we see and what is important, and not spend so much time in the world of speculation and innuendo.
As for HH, he doesn't have an agenda for or against any player. He will however pass on information gleemed from team sources. I appreciate that whether or not I agree with or like the message being sent by the sources.
I personally believe BD will do whatever it takes to elevate his game to the next level. I also believe that BD is like most of the multi-millionaire star players in the NBA - he has a big ego and is spoiled. The stars always get special treatment, sometimes they abuse that privilege.
I just started a thread about this. Check it out...Originally posted by TheBigEasy
I'll take it ...
http://pelicansreport.com/vBulletin/...threadid=17634
I guess they are going to let the new coach make decisions about the staff.
Other than Gattison, I haven't been impressed with the assistant coaches, though.
A football game can't stop hurricanes.
It can't fix levees.
Or rebuild houses.
But it can let a city know...
That it's a city once again.
Welcome back, New Orleans.
That my friend is an inuendo and it's totally wrong. If I had an agenda against BD, do you think I would have waited so long to come forward with the things I have? I'll pass along what ever news I get. Good, bad or indifferent. About anyone...Originally posted by akshun
it's obvious that Baron Davis is your next target...
PS. There are a ton of threads on the board you can participate in that have nothing to do with this issue. Feel free to skip this one...
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I understand that. All I was saying was that sometimes I wish the environment around here was a little different, that's all. That's an opinion, not a suggestion as to how this board should be run.Originally posted by say-what
The board generally decides what is discussed and what isn't. Whether it's on the court accomplishments or behind the scenes buzz, it's all fair game.
Contributor
The only one who has openly exhibited that attitude to me is Mashburn. That is not to say that BD has not, but I have not seen it or experienced it.Originally posted by BayouHornet
Do you condone his attitude? The " I will do what I want " and " I don't want to play for that coach " .
It's pathetic.
I agree to a certain extent. Outwardly, there hasn't been much to talk about. The only outward things I can remember was the "breakfast meeting" incident, and not "taking the foul" when instructed. The rest is a behind closed doors thing. I will add this. It was obvious that at times BD would abandon the offense too. Was it his position to decide this? Do we really think Tim wanted him taking all those 3s? While BD wasn't as outward or brazen, there are enough instances (IMO) that point to issues with him as well...Originally posted by HORNETSFAN
The only one who has openly exhibited that attitude to me is Mashburn. That is not to say that BD has not, but I have not seen it or experienced it.
I've seen plenty outwardly over the closing 10-15 games of the season that led me to believe what we had been hearing about BD disrespecting Floyd. I saw it with my 2 eyes. But, Floyd never gained BD's respect from the start. That's where he went wrong. BD had the great first 25 games and Floyd let him do his thing until those crazy shots stopped falling.
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We really do not know either way. If BD was doing it against Floyd's orders, shame on Floyd for not acting (why would he act for one breakfast meeting and not for a season long issue such as shot selection?). It is hard to tell, especially since we have seen instances of Floyd, in the playoffs, calling for 3 pointers out of a time out when it made no sense. Who knows?Originally posted by Harvey Hornet
Do we really think Tim wanted him taking all those 3s?
I did not make my statement to question your info. However, it is hard for me to overreact without seeing it exhibited (ala "Mashburn"). Not to mention, if we do not care for Mashburn and now turn the same feeling to BD, (and many beating on Big Cat for being lazy) what the hell do we have to root for on this team? Lynch (wanted out of N.O. last year), Augmon (in his last year(s)), Smith or DA (see Augmon), PJ (criticized for big contract and disappearing at crucial times), Traylor (out of shape and turnover/foul prone), CA (injured and criticized for shot selection and being soft)??? That leaves Shamwill, Carter and West (i.e. the newest members of the team). I am just saying that once the players have been here long enough for us as fans to get to know them, we find fault with them. I just do not want to overreact to what may be a problem, but certainly a solve-able problem. Now that I have depressed myself about our players, I will move onto another thread.
Okay, re BD, how about this. No doubt he's a talented athlete. Potentially a great player long term But he is yet to prove he's the second coming, much less perfect. I've yet to see him play a full season in N.O. without injury. I HAVE seen him jack up threes at the absolute worst time and make more than his share of ridiculous passes that sail to who knows where.
To suggest that a player should not be criticized somehow he is above the rules that apply to the rest of the team is laughable. I'm fully aware of the realities in the NBA. But, I tell you what, when BD shows me superstar (I mean real superstar) performance over the course of a couple of full seasons, then I'll shut up if he misses a bus ride or two.
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Coaching Change Press Conference Transcript
http://www.nba.com/hornets/news/coac...ipt040507.html
Fox sports new home for the hornets
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I feal sorry for Timmy. Of course he didn't get a fair shot with the players and Mash and everything, but really, he's not a good coach.
Ummm, it's the internet -- speculation and innuendo is what we're good at.Originally posted by akshun
I do wish, however, that we could spend a little time on this board focusing on what we see and what is important, and not spend so much time in the world of speculation and innuendo.
The problem is, we don't have anyone with Bird's credibility with the players to take that kind of "take-it-or-leave-it" stance. That's what we need to be looking for in our next GM.Originally posted by TheBigEasy
Last year in Indy, when Thomas got fired, O'Neal went nuts, but Bird basically told him "live with it". Well ... thats not exactly the same situation as with the Hornets, but this is the way it should be. If Baron doesnt like the coach, too bad ... but he should learn to live with it.
TBE
I understand your point. BD is too important to this team (and it's ability to succeed on and off the floor) for me to glaze over him. This year, Mash started out as the big story and it evolved into Floyd. I was critical of all 3, but to a MUCH lesser degree with BD. Mash will be gone. Floyd is gone. BD is a guy we need to be part of the "getting well" process, not against it. If Shinn wouldn't have brought up the issue, I would have left it alone.Originally posted by HORNETSFAN
We really do not know either way. If BD was doing it against Floyd's orders, shame on Floyd for not acting (why would he act for one breakfast meeting and not for a season long issue such as shot selection?). It is hard to tell, especially since we have seen instances of Floyd, in the playoffs, calling for 3 pointers out of a time out when it made no sense. Who knows?
I did not make my statement to question your info. However, it is hard for me to overreact without seeing it exhibited (ala "Mashburn"). Not to mention, if we do not care for Mashburn and now turn the same feeling to BD, (and many beating on Big Cat for being lazy) what the hell do we have to root for on this team? Lynch (wanted out of N.O. last year), Augmon (in his last year(s)), Smith or DA (see Augmon), PJ (criticized for big contract and disappearing at crucial times), Traylor (out of shape and turnover/foul prone), CA (injured and criticized for shot selection and being soft)??? That leaves Shamwill, Carter and West (i.e. the newest members of the team). I am just saying that once the players have been here long enough for us as fans to get to know them, we find fault with them. I just do not want to overreact to what may be a problem, but certainly a solve-able problem. Now that I have depressed myself about our players, I will move onto another thread.
As for the rest of the players... It's the nature of a board like this. Some will love them, some will like them, some won't care, some will hate them. There are only about 10 guys on an NBA team worth discussing. Eventually, they'll all fall under somone's scrutiny...
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