THE POSITION... PT GUARD
Let me know if rather I post in The Nest or Gerry V
While the Hornets have done a ice job filling their roster with an obvious upgrade in talent,the one area that still ends with a question mark is the point guard position.Discuss Vasquez and Rivers if you wish as the summer league displayed an Austin Rivers with basketball talent,passion,attack mentality,fearless,streaky, but obviously not ready to command and wear the hat of a floor general. (* let's also remind ourselves that summer league games deal with the simplistic elements of the game as players are evaluated on the basics.
At the moment do the Hornets have the guard that can do the following:
PICK AND ROLLS
1-Handle the ball and execute the pick and roll?
A-can he turn the corner in the P&R? Get into the teeth of the defense?
B- make the pass off the dribble? Either hand?
C- can he score out of P&R's? How?
D- Can he escape the trap thus putting pressure on the defense?
1-Does he have open floor acceleration? Which allows him to separate himself from the pack?Get foul line to foul line?
2- Can he make the pass off the dribble to runners and cutters?
3- Court vision? See "corner to corner? ( left to right)
4-Change of direction quicks and make a play? Handle with either hand?
5-when to push it and when to run a set play?
6- Does he understand when and how to "keep the bigs happy?"
7- handle defensive pressure and traps?
1- Can he defend? ( how well can he defend at his position within his Conference/ Division?
2- Does he understand defensive concepts
1- Can he score? He better have a jumper.
2- Can can he get his own shot?
3- Can he get "to the rim?" or dotted line?:
1- Leadership/personality/mental toughness
3 knows time and score/ timeouts/foul situations/ match ups?/ shot clock
4-understand whom has the hot hand?
5- Pace, when to push it and when to run.?
6- *[toughest part] When to shoot and when to pass.
I have listed a variety of skills required to play the toughest position on the floor.As you discuss the pt guard position on the Hornet roster, tell me if you feel they are currently in good hands.
Makes for some good basketball conversation.
Next Scoring Swings
Does this need to be one guy with all of this or are we talking about skillsets throughout the team?
I think Vasquez has *most* of the items you mentioned.
Great ball handler.
We saw him hit a number of 3's last season also has a nice little "floater" in the lane.
Showing leadership skills (i was impressed how he was with the summer league team/ monty watching every game).
His quickness leaves a little bit to be desired but I give him a pass on that just based on the fact of his size. 6'6 PG is something most teams don't have.
Rivers... Don't get me wrong I am high on this kid but i haven't seen enough to make a real judgement. (i mean come on 2 games of summer league is NOT enough to make a call)
I will say I felt like he has great ball handling skills.
His quickness was impressive.
Court vision needs a little improvement (and that'll come with time. the kid is still learning the position). When to shoot / when to pass will come with time and also knowing his teammates / where they will be on the floor.
He attacked the basket with no regard for human life?! Needs to work a floater into his game / mid range shot.
I think he has the raw talent to be great. It's up to Monty to take that clay and mold it. I think he can do it. I am almost certain Rivers has the drive and the will to push himself to be great.
Looking forward to watching him grow this season.
Oh man, Vasquez is the next guy that gets way overrated on this board, i can feel it.
Austin Rivers is where it's at:cool:.
Can you feel it coming in the air tonight?...... Hold on...... Hold on.
Originally Posted by BallSoHard
I think you are trying to peg certain positions here Gerry, and that isn't the way things work anymore. We will run our offense through Eric Gordon. Is he a PG? No. Can he run the PnR? Well, he was rated 2nd in the league last year in that category, so that says something. He can do it all, so check all the boxes on your list.
In terms of, who is the guy that will bring the ball up the court?, that is going to be Vasquez and Rivers, but they won't play the traditional PG role, I don't think. I do think, however, that their skill sets are polar opposites, which offers us a lot of versatility. Vasquez gave us great minutes last year, and I am happy with him as a 15-20 minute/game type guy. He has his limitations, but he is a real solid player.
Rivers is an unknown right now, but he has tremendous potential. It's really hard to address your question with out watching him play against elite talent while playing with elite talent. I think a guy like Gordon is going to do wonders for him in that he'll take a lot of the scoring pressure off of Rivers and allow him to play the game at a slower pace to start his career. Anderson will lighten the load too, and he'll provide Rivers with a great outlet for his drive-and-dish game. That isn't even mentioning how much Davis will open things up with the PnR lob potential.
Ever heard of sample size? Not trying to start an argument as I agree with your points but thats a very misleading statistic to use.
Originally Posted by nolaslim213
Unfortunately, you can't combine Rivers and Vasquez into that perfect player. Both have their strength and weaknesses. With their deficiencies, neither guy is going to be a real solution this year. We can only hope they both balance each other out and have both Gordon and Mason help out at the point when needed.
I get what you're saying, but it's pretty obvious he is one of the best in the league if you watch him play. I think he rated really high 2 years ago too, but I'm not too keen on statistical analysis. It's just that, when I heard that stat, it stuck with me because when I watch EJ run the PnR it's a thing of beauty IMO.
Originally Posted by 504s Deek
Originally Posted by WhoDatHornet
Gordon is excellent in the pick n roll. What he needs is a PG next to him who can play off the ball and penetrate when needed. Rivers has that potential eventually once he improves his shooting and gets stronger.
That's pretty much how I see it. It would help if this PG could also switch defensive assignments with Gordon, too.
Originally Posted by Hornets78
Who's a really good pg in this league that doesn't need the ball in his hands? Serious question because I cant think of it. If Gordon truely lives up to everything everyone's saying, then I think you need a Spot up PG along with anderson to keep defenses honest when Godon is working his magic, not really a penetrator. I completely agree with Kibner about switching assignments, since Gordon is a bit undersized and with all you're asking him to do on offense it's hard to ask him to defend top players as well. I think a big guard (Think Evan Turner with a better spot up shot) would be a good compliment.
No, you want as many penetrators and ball-handlers as you can get. Makes your offense more difficult to defend. Of course, you want them all to be able to shoot, too.
Originally Posted by BallSoHard
Edit: To clarify, I think Harden is in no way, shape, or form anything close to resembling a SF.
BallsoHard: Its a list of certain qualities one would use when evaluating pt guards,a check list.It doesn't mean a certain has all these qualities,but it serves as a measuring stick when comparing player vs player. Plus it stimulates some good basketball conversation.
Yup. Even Magic Johnson doesn't fulfill all of that criteria.
Originally Posted by gerryv
nolaslim: I don't fully agree with you.yes Gordon can run the pick and roll ,but one must consider playing 82 games,defenses preparing for certain schemes over the course of a season. The team lacked backcrt speed last year so lets simply agree to disagree.We're talking on two different levels.
Gordon needs a playmate that draws coverage,and who is an offensive threat,as Gordon will warrant special defensive attention.I look at the pt guard position as vital to this team...the need for that player that can playmake......
Correct,Magic had size,an open floor game that perfectly fit the Laker style at the time,open floor "Showtime" Magic had all the Mental qualities required to go along with the list.
Gordon did not have a large enough body of work to properly rank him in the P&R area...lets put the numbers in the proper context shall we.
Charmers is a good PG who can play off the ball. Not great but good.
Unless we get an upgrade at SF, we will need a PG who can create and score some. Rivers could be that guy. Needs to work hard, get stronger, improve his jumper, etc. Vasquez is a good stopgap right now.
WhoDatHornet: One of the joys of the game is waiting to see what players have improved their game from one season to the next.I base my evaluations on hoq I see a player over the 82 game schedule.Is the talent good enough to beat the top 7 teams you play...also the best in the West.You build your roster to win a playoff series not a one night stand.
Chalmers is a borderline starter IMO