Hornets defenders ON BALL stats

I'm hoping this sparks huge discussion, because this is some excellent info. It is JUST on ball stats, so it does not account for how well Chris Kaman rotates or something. Or if Kobe Bryant drives by Trevor Ariza and then finishes over Kaman, those numbers are applied to Ariza since he is the one who was the original defender. I listed the players OVERALL on ball stats, which is their iso, post up, p&r man, spot up, off screen, and hand off stats all averaged out to give you the overall numbers. I don't feel like listing how every player performed while being posted up, but I could share some of that info if you want a particular player.

PPP – Points Per Play. A play is always ended with either a shot, turnover, or free throw. PPP is the total points excluding techs, divided by their total plays.

%SF - Percent Shooting Foul. This is the percentage when the offensive player drew a shooting foul.

%TO – Percent Turnover. This is the percentage of plays where the offensive player turns the ball over.

%Score – Percent Score. This is the percentage of plays where the offensive players scores atleast a single point.

Jarrett Jack:
PPP- 0.9
FG%- 40.3%
%SF- 4.3%
%TO- 9.7%
%Score- 39.7

Greivis Vasquez:
PPP- 0.8
FG%- 36.7%
%SF- 4.1%
%TO- 10.2%
%Score- 36.1%

Jerome Dyson:
PPP- 0.7
FG%- 33.3%
%SF- 5.5%
%TO- 15.1%
%Score- 32.9%

Eric Gordon:
PPP- 0.78
FG%- 33.8%
%SF- 6.6%
%TO- 13.2%
%Score- 34.1%

Marco Belinelli:
PPP- 0.83
FG%- 38%
%SF- 3.6%
%TO- 7.8%
%Score- 37.4%

Xavier Henry:
PPP- 0.94
FG%- 40.5%
%SF- 4.1%
%TO- 8.9%
%Score- 39.4%

Trevor Ariza:
PPP- 0.83
FG%- 37.8%
%SF- 4.6%
%TO- 10.1%
%Score- 36.3%

Al-Farouq Aminu:
PPP- 0.92
FG%- 38.2%
%SF- 4.7%
%TO- 7.8%
%Score- 37.8%

Jason Smith:
PPP- 0.77
FG%- 33.9%
%SF- 4.5%
%TO- 5.2%
%Score- 35.3%

Carl Landry:
PPP- 0.79
FG%- 37.7%
%SF- 3.8%
%TO- 8.6%
%Score- 36.7%

Gustavo Ayon:
PPP- 0.76
FG%- 36%
%SF- 6.3%
%TO- 9.9%
%Score- 36.9%

Lance Thomas:
PPP- 0.56
FG%- 23.1%
%SF- 7.8%
%TO- 11.3%
%Score- 27.8%

Emeka Okafor:
PPP- 0.9
FG%- 46.2%
%SF- 6.3%
%TO- 8.1%
%Score- 44.4%

Chris Kaman:
PPP- 0.82
FG%- 40.8%
%SF- 3.2%
%TO- 7.2%
%Score- 39.9%

Daryl Watkins:
PPP- 1
FG%- 56.3%
%SF- 0.0%
%TO- 15.8%
%Score- 47.4%

Can you give us perspective or reference some others. I can read stats, but I would like to compare to some the entire league recognizes as good defenders. Trying to remove my bias goggles.

Anyone in particular?

I'm not surprised by these numbers with the exception of Aminu.

Benchmarks would be excellent to be able to understand the data.

Ie Highest Marks, Lowest marks and agerage by position.

I haven't been able to find averages but if you have a particular guy in mind so you can compare just say so.

I am surprised Jacks numbers are what they are though. It's really him and X as our worst two defenders.

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Originally Posted by CP3forMVP

I haven't been able to find averages but if you have a particular guy in mind so you can compare just say so.

I am surprised Jacks numbers are what they are though. It's really him and X as our worst two defenders.

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I'm not. He's always been bad defensively.

I think you mean on-the-ball defense.

Let's Make assumptions here that these guys are the best defenders at their positions

PG
Rondo
Kidd
Chris Paul

Wings
Igudola
LBJ
Ronnie Brewer
D Wade
Kobe

Big men
Garnett
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler

Add Bynum to the center list.

I had him but made a last minute subtraction!

Rondo:
PPP- 0.75
FG%- 35.2%
%SF- 4.2%
%TO- 13%
%Score- 34%

Kidd:
PPP- 0.83
FG%- 38.5%
%SF- 3.6%
%TO- 11.8%
%Score- 36.5%

Chris Paul:
PPP- 0.8
FG%- 38.4%
%SF- 3.7%
%TO- 15%
%Score- 35.2%

Igudola:
PPP- 0.76
FG%- 37.4%
%SF- 5.5%
%TO- 13.1%
%Score- 35.9%

LBJ:
PPP- 0.8
FG%- 37.3%
%SF- 4.1%
%TO- 12.3%
%Score- 34.8%

Ronnie Brewer:
PPP- 0.81
FG%- 37.5%
%SF- 4.4%
%TO- 10.8%
%Score- 36.6%

D Wade:
PPP- 0.78
FG%- 35.4%
%SF- 5.3%
%TO- 9.9%
%Score- 35.2%

Kobe:
PPP- 0.82
FG%- 35.7%
%SF- 4.3%
%TO- 8.7%
%Score- 35.8%

Garnett:
PPP- 0.74
FG%- 36.8%
%SF- 5.9%
%TO- 10.6%
%Score- 36.8%

Dwight Howard:
PPP- 0.75
FG%- 37.3%
%SF- 6.9%
%TO- 8.5%
%Score- 38.9%

Tyson Chandler:
PPP- 0.8
FG%- 40.7%
%SF- 4.3%
%TO- 10.8%
%Score- 38.7%

Andrew Bynum:
PPP- 0.77
FG%- 38%
%SF- 4.3%
%TO- 6.4%
%Score- 37.4%

Gordon / Wade:
PPP- 0.78 / 0.78
FG%- 33.8% / 35.4%
%SF- 6.6% / 5.3%
%TO- 13.2% / 9.9%
%Score- 34.1% / 35.2%

Isolation:
PPP- 0.42 / 0.49
FG%- 12.5% / 24.6%
%SF- 8.3% / 4%
%TO- 16.7% / 13.3%
%Score- 16.7% / 25.3%

Wade's defense against the p&r is better though.

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Originally Posted by CP3forMVP

Gordon / Wade:
PPP- 0.78 / 0.78
FG%- 33.8% / 35.4%
%SF- 6.6% / 5.3%
%TO- 13.2% / 9.9%
%Score- 34.1% / 35.2%

Isolation:
PPP- 0.42 / 0.49
FG%- 12.5% / 24.6%
%SF- 8.3% / 4%
%TO- 16.7% / 13.3%
%Score- 16.7% / 25.3%

Wade's defense against the p&r is better though.

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Where does Gordon struggle defensively since his total defensive ratings are never that good?

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

Let's Make assumptions here that these guys are the best defenders at their positions

PG
Rondo
Kidd
Chris Paul

Wings
Igudola
LBJ
Ronnie Brewer
D Wade
Kobe

Big men
Garnett
Dwight Howard
Tyson Chandler

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I don't think that would really give a good idea of what you want, though you did have some excellent picks. We would want to compare people who shared similar defensive roles.

PG:
Rondo is a good choice to compare against Jack. Plays solid and doesn't gamble.
Kidd makes a good comparison point for Vasquez.
Paul gambles too much. I would put Westbrook in the list to lookup.

Wings:
Iggy is one of the best defensive wings.
LBJ is one of the best defensive players at any position.
Brewer I wouldn't really trust. Wade and Bryant aren't what they used to be.
Tony Allen would be a real good one to look at.

Bigs:
Chandler has been outstanding
Howard has also been awesome.
Garnett wasn't doing well at PF, but did ok at C.
Man, it is hard to think of a great defensive PF. Josh Smith, I think?

Team DRB% while that player is on the floor would also be something good to look at. Possessions don't end until a score or defensive rebound.

His pick and roll defense is pretty bad.

Nearly a point per play, 50% shooting, and the offensive player scores 47% of the time.

Next highest is spotting up but I'm sure everyone is high there, also nearly a point per play.

Last year it was at 0.83 per play, 40% shooting, and 41% of the time the player scores, in terms of p&r. His iso defense wasn't as good either, 0.63, 25%, 13.4% ended in fouls, and 32% of the time they scored.


Gordon / Wade / Tony Allen:
PPP- 0.78 / 0.78 / 0.81
FG%- 33.8% / 35.4% / 36.3%
%SF- 6.6% / 5.3% / 7.3%
%TO- 13.2% / 9.9% / 12.6%
%Score- 34.1% / 35.2% / 36.8%

Isolation:
PPP- 0.42 / 0.49 / 0.68
FG%- 12.5% / 24.6% / 34%
%SF- 8.3% / 4% / 9.5%
%TO- 16.7% / 13.3% / 21.6%
%Score- 16.7% / 25.3% / 33.8%

Tony Allen does rank #1 in hand off defense though.

Joakim Noah is a great defender as well.

What's the difference between iso defense and on the ball defense?

Thanks CP3forMVP! I always have to wonder if it may be due to matchups and other things. Defense is so hard to judge with any stats and we only have access to the most basic of them. :(

Chris Paul has become more of a complete defender.

A couple of things that stood out to me:

Ariza is really underrated defensively. You say something like "his numbers arn't that better than others" but consider he is almost always cross matched with the best offensive player on the other team. He is cross matched and still puts up good numbers, thats very impressive.

The exact opposite of what I said for Ariza can be said for Marco. The guy is usually cross matched to the weaker wing player on the other team, and he put up subpar numbers. Not impressive.

Aminu was alot worse defensively than what I would have assumed. I'm sure he will improve over time, but it seemed like he was fairly skilled at it already.

Xavier is bad offensively and defensively. Guy needs to work hard this offseason.

Always knew Jack wasn't that grat on D, but here are the numbers to prove it. Still, he's not unbearably bad like alot of people like to make him out to be. D just isn't his strong suit.

JSmith is a better defender than I thought he was. Is there anything that this guy didn't improve on?

Gordon is a damn fine defender.

Wow Watkins, small sample size, but thats just bad.

Of all the digging I've done for numbers, Watkins is the only guy I who allows a point per play...:hihi:

What would be neat is to see how each of these players caused a difference in their opponents offensive stats. Like yeah, Marco gives up .9 PP (or whatever it was), but is that more or less than the average of the opponent he is guarding?

What's ironic about J Jack is that when I looked around on the draft websites, defense was actually looked at as a strong suit of his. But I think one thing to take into consideration there is the greater number of superstar and lightning-quick PGs there are now compared to when he first came out...at least it seems like there are faster PGs now, I could be wrong.

No, you are right, djpaul. Due to a combination of available athletes and rules, driving and slashing to the hoop is more effective than it used to be. Can you imagine Stockton trying to prevent the guards of today driving past him? If you are not exceptionally quick, you are considered slow nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Kibner

What would be neat is to see how each of these players caused a difference in their opponents offensive stats. Like yeah, Marco gives up .9 PP (or whatever it was), but is that more or less than the average of the opponent he is guarding?

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It's not really what you asked for, but points per play, Marco scored a 0.96 and allowed a 0.83.

26% of Marco's offense came off screens, and 25% of his offense came on spot ups.

But then you have a guy like EJ, 33% of his offense came off the pick and roll, 16% iso, and 16% transition. He scored a point per play.

^ That is pretty interesting stuff. I love stats. :3 If only I loved them enough to spend all my free time analyzing and trying to find a good balance between rate and volume stats to give a good analysis of each of our players. Damn that lack of a drive on my part. lol

SO... Lance Thomas is the best on ball defender in the league? :hihi:

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Originally Posted by BeeBall Reasons

SO... Lance Thomas is the best on ball defender in the league? :hihi:

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Keep in mind that these stats are heavily influenced by who you guard. Lance usually went against the backups and the backups of backups. His on-ball defense should rate well in that scenario.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kibner

Keep in mind that these stats are heavily influenced by who you guard. Lance usually went against the backups and the backups of backups. His on-ball defense should rate well in that scenario.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

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Yea I know, I'm not a huge believer in stats though, because most stats would indicate the the spurs don't have elite players yet they are one of the best teams in the NBA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeeBall Reasons

Yea I know, I'm not a huge believer in stats though, because most stats would indicate the the spurs don't have elite players yet they are one of the best teams in the NBA

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I would put Parker and Ginobli up there. However, they don't play enough minutes to put up a lot of counting numbers. Duncan is a fringe elite player at this point in his career. Better than any big the Hornets have, but not quite up to that elite level because he is not able to maintain his efficiency in high amounts of minutes at his age.