Al-Farouq After We Declined His Option (Austin Rivers related)

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11-09-2014, 10:55 AM
MichaelMcNamara

Al-Farouq After We Declined His Option (Austin Rivers related)

Here were the stats in his first six games after we declined his option:

13 ppg
8.4 rpg
2 steals
1.3 blocks
50% FG

He came back down to Earth, and nobody wanted him the next summer. Then, all he could get was a minimum deal the following year. And wings are more needed than backup guards.

I was the leader of the 'Pick up the option' camp, but even I have to say that it is too early to say Dell made a mistake with Rivers.
11-09-2014, 11:10 AM
Coughka

In general I think it's silly, so long as you don't have good reason to believe your front office economic/analyst guys are totally incompetent, to assume that we as casual outside observers have a better gauge of the intricacies of determining a player's potential future monetary worth than the people paid gobs of money by professional sports franchises to do that job for a living.
11-09-2014, 12:10 PM
pelicanchamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Here were the stats in his first six games after we declined his option:

13 ppg
8.4 rpg
2 steals
1.3 blocks
50% FG

He came back down to Earth, and nobody wanted him the next summer. Then, all he could get was a minimum deal the following year. And wings are more needed than backup guards.

I was the leader of the 'Pick up the option' camp, but even I have to say that it is too early to say Dell made a mistake with Rivers.

Demps most likely did the right thing. I think Rivers is much better than Brian Roberts and he will continue to prove himself. He's better than Pargo and I think he's got more skills than Aninu and a higher IQ than all three.

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11-09-2014, 12:12 PM
pelicanchamp

Even though I think Rivers is better than these players, overall, I don't think he's done enough to stay after this year unless he proves he deserves to.

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11-09-2014, 12:51 PM
geauxbama

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelicanchamp

Even though I think Rivers is better than these players, overall, I don't think he's done enough to stay after this year unless he proves he deserves to.

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He's outplayed EG 4/5 games so far. Small sample size, but that's enough for me.
11-09-2014, 09:50 PM
UNO Gracias

I wasnt a believer in AFA then, and I am not believing in AR now.

I am glad I am not the only one who feels we don't need to run to his house with a pen and a contract tonight. I think Rivers still has a whole lot more to prove before we can be convinced that AR is the answer.
11-09-2014, 11:45 PM
pelicanchamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

I wasnt a believer in AFA then, and I am not believing in AR now.

I am glad I am not the only one who feels we don't need to run to his house with a pen and a contract tonight. I think Rivers still has a whole lot more to prove before we can be convinced that AR is the answer.

I completely agree. It's gonna take 45-50 games of improved solid play before I consider him a player we need.

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11-10-2014, 09:18 AM
hornetsrebirth

I see no reason to believe Rivers is playing above his ability right now. This is who he is as a basketball player. It's more likely that he will continue to improve/develop than regress to his rookie year.
11-10-2014, 09:23 AM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

I see no reason to believe Rivers is playing above his ability right now. This is who he is as a basketball player. It's more likely that he will continue to improve/develop than regress to his rookie year.

Possible. But I was just saying that the 5 games isn't enough evidence either way. If he was bad in the first five, that wouldn't have justified Dell's decision. If he's good, it doesn't show Dell's decision is wrong.

Only time will tell.
11-10-2014, 09:33 AM
UNO Gracias

I would like to see where he is at the qtr mark. By that point we are deep enough into the pool where we know who can swim, and who can win the 200meter butterfly. I hope AR keeps up this progress. We need guys like him, Jimmer, and Ajinca to step up for us, if we want to compete with a nice deep bench.
11-10-2014, 09:34 AM
MichaelMcNamara

I am curious to see - if Rivers does keep playing like this - if Dell sells high. Rivers plus some expirings might be able to fetch something nice. Or does Dell keep him as an important part of the rotation with the hopes of signing him in the summer?
11-10-2014, 09:35 AM
HornetGuru

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I am curious to see - if Rivers does keep playing like this - if Dell sells high. Rivers plus some expirings might be able to fetch something nice. Or does Dell keep him as an important part of the rotation with the hopes of signing him in the summer?

what about trading him, and then resigning him this off season?
11-10-2014, 09:36 AM
Caffeinedisastr

I think Dell is looking out for the team. Austin looked better last year, but still not enough to justify his lottery contract.

Declining his option gives the team flexibility in the offseason.
Who knows? Maybe his "historically bad rookie season" will precede him and we can resign him even cheaper than his current contract?

But if he does well and we try to bring him back to start in Gordon's place, why would he NOT resign?
Given his personality I think he would rather start on a playoff team than start on a lesser team and make slightly more money.

What is the max he can get from anyone else?
Did we eliminate his bird rights when we declined his option?
11-10-2014, 09:38 AM
HornetGuru

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr

I think Dell is looking out for the team. Austin looked better last year, but still not enough to justify his lottery contract.

Declining his option gives the team flexibility in the offseason.
Who knows? Maybe his "historically bad rookie season" will precede him and we can resign him even cheaper than his current contract?

But if he does well and we try to bring him back to start in Gordon's place, why would he NOT resign?
Given his personality I think he would rather start on a playoff team than start on a lesser team and make slightly more money.

What is the max he can get from anyone else?
Did we eliminate his bird rights when we declined his option?

we can't sign him for more than we declined him for.
11-10-2014, 09:39 AM
Caffeinedisastr

Yes, I know.
I was just wondering what is the max that someone else can sign him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

we can't sign him for more than we declined him for.
11-10-2014, 09:40 AM
MichaelMcNamara

Quote:

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

what about trading him, and then resigning him this off season?

People often put forth this idea, but I follow the three major sports pretty religiously and I can only think of 2-3 times this has ever happened, so I would put the odds of this happening at slim to none.
11-10-2014, 09:43 AM
Perth_Hornet

Quote:

Originally Posted by HornetGuru

we can't sign him for more than we declined him for.

Really?

For what reason is that rule in place?
11-10-2014, 09:45 AM
Kurgan

To stop teams from declining the option i suppose
11-10-2014, 09:49 AM
Perth_Hornet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurgan

To stop teams from declining the option i suppose

So he is an UFA then?

And we can't match another team's higher offer on him, hypothetically?
11-10-2014, 09:50 AM
hornetsrebirth

Maybe the thinking is that signing Rivers to a new contract at the end of this season would be cheaper than trying to sign him to a new deal at the end of next season. I think that's the only way declining Rivers extension could still turn out to be a good move.
11-10-2014, 10:05 AM
RaisingTheBar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perth_Hornet

So he is an UFA then?

And we can't match another team's higher offer on him, hypothetically?

The max money we can give Rivers in the 1st year of a deal is 3.1mil, we can give him any more after that but in the 1st year 3.1 is the most we can offer. So all other teams can offer as much as they want.
11-10-2014, 10:06 AM
RaisingTheBar

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Maybe the thinking is that signing Rivers to a new contract at the end of this season would be cheaper than trying to sign him to a new deal at the end of next season. I think that's the only way declining Rivers extension could still turn out to be a good move.

This is a Demps like way of looking at it, and it's definitely a possibility.
11-10-2014, 10:50 AM
UNO Gracias

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

People often put forth this idea, but I follow the three major sports pretty religiously and I can only think of 2-3 times this has ever happened, so I would put the odds of this happening at slim to none.

Yeah, I can't recall this happening. Barea left Dallas, got waived by the Wolves and came back to the Mavs, but it wasn't like the Mavs used him in order to get better. Not the same thing.

I thought a few years back didn't Gary Payton get traded from the Celtics to the Hawks, get cut by the Hawks and then go back to Boston? Yeah, I can't recall this type of thing happening, especially to a guy this young and hell bent on being a bigger piece to a franchise.
11-12-2014, 04:43 PM
ml wave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr

Yes, I know.
I was just wondering what is the max that someone else can sign him?

The max.
11-12-2014, 05:34 PM
NOLA_Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I am curious to see - if Rivers does keep playing like this - if Dell sells high. Rivers plus some expirings might be able to fetch something nice. Or does Dell keep him as an important part of the rotation with the hopes of signing him in the summer?

I would hope Rivers will stick around past this season. He's a good option off the bench and is still improving.

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