Hornets now the frontrunners for Vince!!!!!! {RUMOR - admin edit}

I don't know if any of you who live in Canada saw Sportsnetnew(You must have digital cabel and order it) but Jack Armstrong(famous basketball analysis in canada) talked about the raptors trading vince. He said right now that four teams have deals in place for Carter the the raptors are considering. He said the knicks were frontrunners before but the hornets are now the current frontrunners. He said Carter wants to go to the knicks would be equally happy if he was going to Seattle or New Orleans,

Here's how he listed it
1-New Orleans (raps want both Brown and JMAG along with Da, but raptors have already said no to this offer, raptors however would settle for Mash if hornets can prove he can still play. iF HORNETS decide to trade Brown,Magloire,and Armstron the this deal could happen sooner then anticipated, but if hornets continue to want to only give up one of theire big men then it may take a few weeks. Raptors are also prepared to give up Bosh if necessarybut hornts would have to throw in first round picks their's also a few other guys who would have to be thrown in to make this work.

2-Seattle (Allen,Radmonavich for Carter)

3-New York

4-Clippers(the talks between these two teams is dying off because Raps mainly wanted Qrich and now that they dont have him they want brand and Maggete) Clips aren't intrested

magloire brown and da for carter and bosh?! do it please!

I know this is bull when I hear that the Raptors would be willing to throw in Bosh. There is no way Toronto would trade Carter and Bosh to us for those players and some number 1s (and not make us take the albatross of a contract Rose has).

I report it like i hear it

and we would still have to take Rose's contract even with Bosh sorry I did'nt make that clear, hornets would be trading Brown, Magloire,Armstrong,Wesley, and a few first rounders for Bosh,Carter,Rose

There would also be other player involved to amke it all work

Ok...

From what we all understand, this deal is supposedly dead.

But from what you're dishing out... the Hornets get Vince, Rose, and Bosh, and the Raptors aren't getting Baron Davis in exchange.

Case closed, if that's the deal... where do we sign? I'd give them Mags, PJ, Mash, DA, Wesley and a first round pick. Do they want anyone else? Throw them in too...

There is only one reason the Raptors do this. From what I understand the only person besides Vince that the Raptors believe will guarantee sell outs at Air Canada is Mags. Doesn't make sense to me... but he is from Canada. So if they say so, I beleive it... I guess.

If this deal is real.. BIG IF. The hornets are sniffin glue if they decline it.

Hey... who knows...

Mags is an All Star. He may have even been the MVP of the all star game if the east would have won last year. Given how hard it has been for them to find a center...

They'd be getting the second best center in the east, an allstar, and a young guy with a decent salary... who just happens to be a box office draw because he's from Canada.

I think you have to take what you would normally consider to be Mags value and add some points to it in a possible trade with Toronto because they would clearly value him more than any other team in the league...

Again.. if the hornets pass... they'd have to be smokin the wacky tobacky..."the Ricky icky"!!!

wow. i wouldn't mind parting with magloire and brown if we get VC and Bosh, even if we have to take Rose's contract. if they'll take mash, then that's even better (i wouldn't count on it, though). Davis, Carter, Rose, and Bosh (and oh yeah, a gaping hole in the middle)., that would be nice.

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Originally posted by yackman
I'd give them Mags, PJ, Mash, DA, Wesley and a first round pick. Do they want anyone else? Throw them in too....

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Yackman, I do agree (to an extent) with you when you said that the Hornets are sniffing glue if they decline the trade. However, I don't agree that we should give them 5 players (3 of them starters), and a 1st round pick, just for VC, and JRose (and possibly Chris Bosh). I checked the trade on RealGM, and it was accepted, however, i didn't put in the 1st round pick (cause i didn't know how).

i put this in RealGM's trade checker, what do you think?

New Orleans trades: C Jamaal Magloire (13.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.9 minutes)
SG David Wesley (13.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 32.8 minutes)
PF PJ Brown (10.4 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.4 minutes)
SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 38.4 minutes)
SF George Lynch (4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 21.8 minutes)
PG Darrell Armstrong (10.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 28.5 minutes)
New Orleans receives: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes)
PF Chris Bosh (11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.0 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -7.1 ppg, -5.0 rpg, and -1.3 apg.

Toronto trades: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes)
PF Chris Bosh (11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.0 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Toronto receives: C Jamaal Magloire (13.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 82 games)
SG David Wesley (13.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 61 games)
PF PJ Brown (10.4 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 80 games)
SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 19 games)
SF George Lynch (4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 78 games)
PG Darrell Armstrong (10.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 79 games)
Change in team outlook: +7.1 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and +1.3 apg

Quote:

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Originally posted by HK-47
i put this in RealGM's trade checker, what do you think?

New Orleans trades: C Jamaal Magloire (13.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.9 minutes)
SG David Wesley (13.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 32.8 minutes)
PF PJ Brown (10.4 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.4 minutes)
SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 38.4 minutes)
SF George Lynch (4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 21.8 minutes)
PG Darrell Armstrong (10.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 28.5 minutes)
New Orleans receives: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes)
PF Chris Bosh (11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.0 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -7.1 ppg, -5.0 rpg, and -1.3 apg.

Toronto trades: PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes)
PF Chris Bosh (11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.0 apg in 33.5 minutes)
Toronto receives: C Jamaal Magloire (13.7 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 82 games)
SG David Wesley (13.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 61 games)
PF PJ Brown (10.4 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 80 games)
SF Jamal Mashburn (20.8 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 19 games)
SF George Lynch (4.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.5 apg in 78 games)
PG Darrell Armstrong (10.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.9 apg in 79 games)
Change in team outlook: +7.1 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and +1.3 apg

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I doubt that either of the teams would want to give up that much. I mean, I wouldn't mind getting Moiso back, but each team really doesn't need to give up 5 players.

shutup about vince already, they want magz and were not giving him up!!! all this vince talk is making me insane!!

DUDE IF WE GET BOSH IN RETURN THEN IT'S ALL FRICKEN GOOD!

not that i hate magloire, but really, i don't see him becoming much better than he is right now. and i'm worried that he may get really upset at the hornets if he doesn't get dealt to toronto. the last thing we need is for him to become another mash...

and by the way, the player i REALLY want to get from Toronto isn't VC, it's Chris Bosh. from what he showed last year i wouldn't be surprised if he eventually becomes better than Jermaine O'Neal

I love how all these sports guys keep running with a dead deal. The Hornets already refused to make any deal that included JMag and PJ for VC, yet this guy is apparently still running his mouth.

Unless you see it in print that the Hornets HAVE made the trade, consider it useless gossip. :rolleyes:

well, at least they give hopeful fans something to talk about...

If they include Bosh, and anyone on this board doesn't think it's a good deal... then they're nuts.

Magliore is no doubt a beast down low. But what has he done that's so special over the course of his career so far that any other mediocre center hasn't done?

We could potentially dump Mash and receive all the offense and high octane in the world to thrive in Scott's system. Magliore will do crappy in Scott's system because we'll be done on offense by the time he gets to the other end of the court. This is why they got Anderson and don't give a hoot about letting Tractor go.

Baron
Vince
Rose
West
Bosh

That right there puts the Hornets into the top 4 spots in the West.

Oh, I'd take Bosh in a heartbeat if it's Bosh and VC and then throw in a draft pick. But I wouldn't give up JMag for VC without getting someone else to play down low.

yeah, we need SOME size in return. Bosh is gonna be a big time PF, I wonder if they'd really include him.

Ok. Question?

Would you trade PJ, Mash, and a 1st round pick, for Rose and Bosh?

I would. Rose can play 3 positions and in my HO (humble opinion), is better than Mash. Bosh is a star in the making. He's being call Jermaine O'Neal like... the player the Pacers wouldn't give up for Shaq. So if you can get Rose and Bosh, get rid of Mash, and all it cost you is PJ and a 1st... you have to make that trade.

SO...essentially what you're talking about is, do you trade Mags for Vince. NEWS FLASH... Mags aint sellin no tickets. At least not for the hornets. He would however sell tickets for the Raptors. Vince on the other hand...

True Story:

A guy called my office the other day and asked me if I'd be interseted in buying a package of Hornets tickets... I got his name and number and told him I'd call him back when the Hornets got Vince Carter.

Vince Carter instantly gets the hornets on national TV, sells tickets and souvenirs, and gives them another scorer to compete in the west.

If I own the hornets, I can't refuse a VC for Mags trade straight up.

Now throw in the first part, where we get Bosh and Rose, and this deal is too sweet to pass up. Nobody else in the league values Mags as much as the Raptors do, so right now, because VC wants out, Mags value is at its peak.

This is like buying Pets.com low and then selling high before the internet bubble burst.

Now who wouldn't want to that?!?

Your analogy assumes Mags is on the decline, an opinion I do not share. I think VC is much closer to the downside than Mags and big men are extremely hard to get.

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Originally posted by hornetstime
I report it like i hear it

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I'm not saying that you are reporting bull, but that the reporter, whoever he is, is reporting bull. It is wishful thinkning, at best, to think that Toronto would include both VC and Bosh. They are building their team around Bosh for the future. There is absolutely no way, no how, that they would include him in that sort of deal.

Like I said this deal only works if they're willing to deal Bosh in return. IF it is true it would have to happen soon so we could get on our horse and find another big man (Clark, Jabari, ect.) before FA is up...

I like the premise of Bosh playing for us even more so than VC. The point is if this deal is to go through (which I highly doubt). The Hornets need to play hard ball.

They need to stress to Toronto that VC wants out and they have a major issue with Rose. So we have the bargaining power.....not them. JMags leaves only if Bosh is coming here. We do not take Rose and not unload Mash to them.........period. I dont mind giving them a lottery protected pick next year or so.

But most of all this talk is wishful thinking. I guarantee that next year VC will be in a Knicks uniform because Isaiah is anal about getting him. So he'll take the bait and give up too much. Like the saying goes there is a sucker born every day and im glad the Hornets arent the suckers of the league.

No Bosh, No Mags............regardless of VC because he wants out anyway.

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Originally posted by HORNETSFAN
I'm not saying that you are reporting bull...

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Well, I will. How many trade rumors does this guy post with out any back up? Remember the "I don't have the link but I'll get it tomorrow" posts? Remember the links that didnt' work?


Sorry, I don't believe what this guy is posting for one minute. His history here is one that has consisted of several misguided trade posts and several board identities.

This guy is 0-fer in posting trade info. I'm going to guess he'll continue his streak.

I just talked with my Hornets friends last night and I brought up the Rose/VC trade. They laughed.

Like I've said before, anything can happen in NBA negotiations. Things change quickly. It's very possible that Toronto would approach the Hornets with a different deal. PJ, Mash and DA/DW for VC/Rose works for me. Maybe they will do that. But, I don't see the Hornets trading Mags. Let me say it this way, not Mags and Brown. Not even if they get Bosh in return. I think it would have to be Mags or Brown, with the emphasis (by the Hornets) on trading Brown...

Even better HH but I know that Toronto wouldnt budge on that.................Bosh in return for Mags just makes the deal swallowable to me. I still do not want to see us trade Mags.

Just like I had a heart attack when they traded Mourning in a galaxy far far away and a long time ago.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Harvey Hornet


Well, I will. How many trade rumors does this guy post with out any back up? Remember the "I don't have the link but I'll get it tomorrow" posts? Remember the links that didnt' work?


Sorry, I don't believe what this guy is posting for one minute. His history here is one that has consisted of several misguided trade posts and several board identities.

This guy is 0-fer in posting trade info. I'm going to guess he'll continue his streak.

I just talked with my Hornets friends last night and I brought up the Rose/VC trade. They laughed.

Like I've said before, anything can happen in NBA negotiations. Things change quickly. It's very possible that Toronto would approach the Hornets with a different deal. PJ, Mash and DA/DW for VC/Rose works for me. Maybe they will do that. But, I don't see the Hornets trading Mags. Let me say it this way, not Mags and Brown. Not even if they get Bosh in return. I think it would have to be Mags or Brown, with the emphasis (by the Hornets) on trading Brown...

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Thanks for settling everything out Harvey.

I checked the sportnet site and its forums as well as some other NBA rumors forums and there was nothing at all mentioned about this. If it were truly on the public airwaves, I would think we would have seen at least one other comment about it somewhere.

I hear the Lakers are going to be trading for Wilt Chamberlain, the Lakers get screwed here Wilt doesn't have enough left!!!!! More info to come.

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Originally posted by VTHornet
I hear the Lakers are going to be trading for Wilt Chamberlain, the Lakers get screwed here Wilt doesn't have enough left!!!!! More info to come.

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Exactly!

Quote:

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Originally posted by HORNETSFAN
Your analogy assumes Mags is on the decline, an opinion I do not share. I think VC is much closer to the downside than Mags and big men are extremely hard to get.

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I don't assume Mags is on the decline, or even that he's reached his peak. What I realize, is that because Vince Carter wants out of Toronto, and Mags is maybe the one of only a handful of players they believe will be a ticket draw, Mags has a higher value right now to the Raptors, than he ever will for any other team.

Vince Carter sells tickets in Toronto... If they trade him, they HAVE TO get someone in return who will sell tickets. Mags is only going to sell tickets in Toronto. Nowhere else on the planet is he a box office draw.

The analogy to an overhyped internet stock works. Just like that stock, Mags value isn't really worth what the Raptors are willing to give up.

If Mags really is a (B+) grade player... Toronto is the only team in the league that values him as a (A+) player.

I don't know any other way to say this... Mags isn't an (A+) for the hornets. He's a 10pts, 10rebs guy. That's it. For the Raptors... he's a star. He's a native son. He's an allstar. He's box office gold, even at 10pts/10rebs.

Carter is still an international superstar.... and the hornets have to sell tickets. Not to mention the guy can still flat out play, and isn't even close to being over the hill.

I don't even see how you can debate an even swap of Vince for Mags.

If a star two guard was as easy to find as everyone makes it seem... the Hornets would have had one by now!!!!

If good C's were easy to find, teams like Dallas, Toronto, etc. wouldn't still be looking for them...

I'd rather need to fill a hole at G rather than C any day...

If we can trade Mash and a few other 30 year olds, don't you guys think that this year wouldn't be a year completely devoted to rebuilding since we would have already done it? I just don't see the point in sitting on our asses during this offseason, except to sign a few noname people that can't score more than a point a game.. it just makes more sense that we trade off some old guys during the offseason. I mean I know it's a lot more complex than that, but I don't see what we would be gaining by just not making any big trades this offseason. I'm afraid that what's going to end up happening is we won't trade any this offseason, and then we'll have trouble trading them at mid season, trouble getting good deals so we'll figure we're going to be a lottery team anyway so we might as well keep them, and then we figure we can trade them in the next off season and we'll be in the same ****ing situation. I'm sure there are some young teams (like the Clippers, they're so young it's scary.. buit they just got Kerry Kittles so they're a little older).. that need some veteran guidance.. I know we can't trade Magloire but we can at least try to trade these long time veterans.

Quote:

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Originally posted by say-what
I love how all these sports guys keep running with a dead deal. The Hornets already refused to make any deal that included JMag and PJ for VC, yet this guy is apparently still running his mouth.

Unless you see it in print that the Hornets HAVE made the trade, consider it useless gossip. :rolleyes:

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That's right and I am going to remember everyone here who says that JMags "sucks." At least we now know how everyone really feels. I give this whole thing a major thumbs down! Bad, bad.

I'm not opposed to trading DW, DA, Lynch or PJ. Mash is a no brainer. He has to go!!!

If I'm trading PJ, I need something good in return. Good as in young, athletic and tall. We don't have enough front line players to trade the few "bigs" we have for wing players...

I hate to say this but our team just reminds me of like, a junk drawer that is full of all this paper that yuo shoved in there and now it's just time to throw it all away. lol. I mean I don't mean it in a bad way.. I'm just as big a hornets fan as you guys.

where's hornetstime?

I love it, an anchorman gets ripped for reporting a "dead story" and looks to me this "dead story" still has a lot of life left!

Since this is rumor, I think this thread should we be merged with the other VC to N.O. rumor.

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Originally posted by Harvey Hornet
If good C's were easy to find, teams like Dallas, Toronto, etc. wouldn't still be looking for them...

I'd rather need to fill a hole at G rather than C any day...

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I agree... good C's are damn near impossible to find. I can name the good ones on one hand... and that's if I include some PF's who are playing C, or who could play C.

That being said...

Is Mags better than Shaq, Yao, Duncan ,Gasol, J. O'Neal, Garnett? Not even close, and some of those aren't even legit centers.

He's definately a top 10... but he's right there with Illgauskas and Brad Miller.

IF you don't have a star center you're ok in the new NBA.

Look at the playoff teams from last year: Grizzlies, Nuggets, Mavs, Rockets, Lakers, Spurs, Kings, Wolves, Heat, Pistons, Pacers, Bucks, Celtics, Nets, Knicks, and Hornets. Where are the star centers?

Because 2 guards are supposedly easy to find... everyone has a good one. Everyone but the Hornets. For whatever reason, the Hornets haven't been able to find a legit 2 guard.

It's easier to win a championship in the new NBA without a star center, than it is to win without a legit 2 guard.

Not only that, but the hornets need a three. And if they get Rose and Carter, they get 2 players that can play either position.

The Pistons proved this year that you don't need a center...

And don't forget that team from the 90's that won 6 NBA titles without a star center...

Umm.. i'll take the pistons' ben wallace and Rasheed wallace any day buddy. Don't act like the pistons were lacking back there!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Harvey Hornet
I'm not opposed to trading DW, DA, Lynch or PJ. Mash is a no brainer. He has to go!!!

If I'm trading PJ, I need something good in return. Good as in young, athletic and tall. We don't have enough front line players to trade the few "bigs" we have for wing players...

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We don't have enough front line players to trade for wing players?

So who are our 2s and 3s? Starting Wesley and Lynch at 2 and 3 is rediculous. You could get away with that, MAYBE, if Shaq was your center... but not with Mags.

Face it... status quo... starting:
1.BD
2.DW
3.Lynch
4.PJ
5.Mags

Definately gets you in the lottery next year... and I don't even want to buy season tickets to see them play.

This team has to shake it up. They have to do something... or it won't matter where they put the practice facility, because it will turn into a fitness center when the Hornets move cause they can't sell tickets.

New Orleans won't support a lottery team with Baron Davis as the only box office draw.

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Originally posted by Chad504boy
Umm.. i'll take the pistons' ben wallace and Rasheed wallace any day buddy. Don't act like the pistons were lacking back there!

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Neither one of them is a center.

Ben Wallace is a 6'9 power forward.
Rasheed Wallace is a 6'11 power forward.

Rasheed Wallace avg. 16pts/6.8rebs.
Ben Wallace avg. 9.5pts/12.4rebs.

I'd consider it a wash between the Pistons front court and the Hornets.

The difference is in the backcourts. The Pistons have Rip... the hornets have Wesley.

Advantage pistons.

It wasn't the pistons front court that won the championship... it was their backcourt.

I totally agree with yackman.

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Originally posted by hornetstime
I report it like i hear it

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Your track record says otherwise. You began your time here posting bogus trade rumors, promising that links would be available shortly and they never were.

A google search reveals nothing of Jack Armstrong talking about the Hornets as the frontrunner for Carter. Comments of that magnitude from a reputable source would have been picked up by at least ONE major news outlet...especially after the press that the initial trade rumor got.

Unless you can back it up with something other than hearsay, it's nothing more than the typical speculative trade BS that is getting out of hand on this site.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Chad504boy
I love it, an anchorman gets ripped for reporting a "dead story" and looks to me this "dead story" still has a lot of life left!

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Nobody ripped Ed Daniels for the report, they debated the value of the trade and rather it had any life to it.

I don't blame Ed for reporting the "deal", maybe he could have called the Hornets to see rather it was rejected or still being talked about, but oh well, people here clarified the talks.

Quote:

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Originally posted by yackman


Face it... status quo... starting:
1.BD
2.DW
3.Lynch
4.PJ
5.Mags

Definately gets you in the lottery next year... and I don't even want to buy season tickets to see them play.

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this starting 5 is not a lottery team next year and will take any fools money willing to put it up!!!!!! Sorry for the smack.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ljrac
I totally agree with yackman.

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i dont he says "Advantage pistons."


Hornets games 03-04 date and score

NOV 23 Sun @ Detroit W 81-80
DEC 29 Mon @ Detroit L 108-99
FEB 6 Fri Detroit W 92-81
MARCH 23 Tue Detroit W 82-81 ( I was at this awesome game)

Hornets take series 3-1

To me Advantage HORNETS.

I tell you all this is so confusing to me. I don't even feel like keeping up with it. I'll keep up as best I can, and I know that they will do the best they can for the team.