Is Carmelo Anthony Elite?

People have been talking about how great, and how elite Carmelo Anthony is. I don't see it. He is a good sf. He is probably one of the top 3 small forwards in a sf deprived generation, but I don't think he is a guy I would ever want to build a team around. He is compared to LBJ, but he should be compared to Glenn Rice or Bernard King.

Convince me that he is elite.

No, and from what I've heard inside "NBA circles" he isn't considered elite or a superstar like the media makes him out to be.

You'll get no argument from me. Dude is not elite. Dude is a pure scorer, he's not a superstar, and he'll never be the leader on a champion. He's all ego, no heart. Maybe I'm biased, though; he's my least favorite player in the association by far.

An elite scorer, yes. But that's about all. I consider him to be the new Allen Iverson.

If you can build a team around Dirk I dont see why not Melo..both are great scorers and avarage defenders who dont do much else

Denver was a #2 seed with him a couple years back, that's championship worthy. So yes he can be the best player on a championship team. I hate his "effort" on defense though.

No he's not an elite player. A very good to great scorer at times, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by BeeBall Reasons

Denver was a #2 seed with him a couple years back, that's championship worthy. So yes he can be the best player on a championship team. I hate his "effort" on defense though.

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I don't think Melo was the leader there, though. That year, it was Chauncey who was running the show.

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Originally Posted by BeeBall Reasons

Denver was a #2 seed with him a couple years back, that's championship worthy. So yes he can be the best player on a championship team. I hate his "effort" on defense though.

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But the big reasons they were number two were Chauncey Billups and Nene. They provided more to that team than Melo.

Here's the win shares from that team in the regular season.

Billups - 9.9
Nene - 9.3
J.R - 5.8
Birdman - 5.4
Melo - 5.0

Melo did play in 66 games that season, but his win shares per 48 minutes was still lower than the 4 above him. Also, his offensive rating was 105 and defensive rating was 107. No excuse for a player of his caliber to have a lower offensive rating than defensive rating. Now Melo did step up in the playoffs, but Billups still had a higher win share in the playoffs. Also remember, Denver had a super deep team that season so it wasn't Melo or bust that season.

thats why those ratings are flawed, without Melo's amazing scoring ability defenses focus on Chauncey and his numbers go down. Great scorers are the most valuable players in the league

Scorer - Yes; Player - No.

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Originally Posted by rbow.

thats why those ratings are flawed, without Melo's amazing scoring ability defenses focus on Chauncey and his numbers go down. Great scorers are the most valuable players in the league

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That's a flawed argument. We saw how great Chauncey was for the Pistons. He didn't need Melo to be great. Nene was a great scorer in the paint as well. He could open up shots for other players. But Chauncey could always great his own offense. He put up similar numbers during his Pistons days. Plus, Melo missed a lot of games that season and the Nuggets still finished 2nd in the West.

Chauncey was much older and not as good at that point, theres no way that teams gets so far with Chauncey and Nene leading them.

They were also horrible when Melo was playing bad and out for his longest stretch in the beginning of that season

My point is if you go strictly by those ratings Melo is the 5th most valuable player on the team which isnt even close to true

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Originally Posted by rbow.

Chauncey was much older and not as good at that point, theres no way that teams gets so far with Chauncey and Nene leading them.

My point is if you go strictly by those ratings Melo is the 5th most valuable player on the team which isnt even close to true

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He missed alot of games that season that's why he was 5th. They still finished 2nd in the West because of Nene and Chauncey.

Chauncey was still going strong at the point. Plus, that was a deep Denver team, especially their bench.

Melo isn't that valuable of a player. He's only advanced out of the 1st round once in his career. This isn't a KG situation where he was stuck in Minny. Melo played on talented teams. He just isn't that great. He's a high volume scorer, but not necessarily an efficient scorer. We're not taking about Lebron, Wade, Kobe, or Durant. He isn't on their level.

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Originally Posted by rbow.

Chauncey was much older and not as good at that point, theres no way that teams gets so far with Chauncey and Nene leading them.

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Billups was averaging 18 a game with 6.5 assists. He was definitely the guy who helped them over the hump. Melo is a good scorer, but I think Billups was the clear leader of that team.

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

We're not taking about Lebron, Wade, Kobe, or Durant. He isn't on their level.

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Well duh, but in my opinion top 15 player in the league is elite. Melo is that.

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Originally Posted by BeeBall Reasons

Well duh, but in my opinion top 15 player in the league is elite. Melo is that.

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Your definition may not be correct. That's a possibility as well.

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Originally Posted by rbow.

thats why those ratings are flawed, without Melo's amazing scoring ability defenses focus on Chauncey and his numbers go down. Great scorers are the most valuable players in the league

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Yep, Denver is struggling much more than the knicks without the leagues best scorer...

I think Melo has Elite TALENT. But I think he's a selfish player and I don't recall him ever being in top shape. He's not athletically overwhelming in any way shape or form, but he does have a lot of skills. Until you can dominate both phases of the game, I think it's hard to call anyone a superstar.

He's a great #2 guy. But to be a #1 you gotta not just be a player, gotta be a leader. A guy that dudes gladly acquiesce too and respect. Melo doesn't have that. Likes to get his own and forgets all the rest.

Nope. He's not that kinda elite. Still pretty good though. If he were cheaper and available, wouldn't mind seeing him play with Gordon. Wouldn't give us crap on D but whatever. We'd still have Aminu for that.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

People have been talking about how great, and how elite Carmelo Anthony is. I don't see it. He is a good sf. He is probably one of the top 3 small forwards in a sf deprived generation, but I don't think he is a guy I would ever want to build a team around. He is compared to LBJ, but he should be compared to Glenn Rice or Bernard King.

Convince me that he is elite.

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He is arguably the best scorer in the NBA. Thats elite.

Melo can score at will. I think you can build around him to win a championship but its a lot harder with him than others. Amare does not fit with him cause they use the same places on the floor to do their work offensively. He needs an elite point guard around him.

But I think he is elite, cause at times, he can dominate. But biulding a team around him is tough.... Take a look at that fantasy draft... Elite, should be the top ten players. And he went within ten.

Denver had a great defensive core and decent shooters around him, with a championship experience number 2 guy in Billups, and a big post man in Nene. That Denver team was elite, and had a team around him to where he could shoot to his hearts content. Melo was very very dumb to leave Denver for NY. I really thought that Denver team would have won it at some point.

Edit: to answer the question, Melo can be elite in the right system, but not in NY.

Averaging 24 points on 19 attempts per game over the course of his career doesn't impress me very much. He has the clutch gene, and he deserves respect for that, but I think he's a high volume scorer who doesn't play defense. His attitude is what keeps him from being elite, because if he wanted to be a team player and play defense, I bet he could, and he could probably be elite.

Well... if taking 30 shots to score 30 ppg = "elite"... then yeah he's elite.

IMO he's not, but since he scores so many points the media will put him in that class. He's far from elite IMO.

Maybe if he had some kind of heart and drive to win. He seems content with his career. He has the talent to average 48-50%+ shooting but he doesn't seem to want to work for his shots. He'd rather throw up an unnecessarily difficult shot than to work and get a good high percentage shot.

The guy has only had 1 good year in the playoffs. He's been in the playoffs for the last decade and has only 2 series victory to show for it.

hes had 3 great playoff seasons, unfortunately one was against the championship Spurs. His Knicks teams have been terrible so u cant really hold that against him

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

He missed alot of games that season that's why he was 5th. They still finished 2nd in the West because of Nene and Chauncey.

Chauncey was still going strong at the point. Plus, that was a deep Denver team, especially their bench.

Melo isn't that valuable of a player. He's only advanced out of the 1st round once in his career. This isn't a KG situation where he was stuck in Minny. Melo played on talented teams. He just isn't that great. He's a high volume scorer, but not necessarily an efficient scorer. We're not taking about Lebron, Wade, Kobe, or Durant. He isn't on their level.

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they were like 9-7 without Melo, obviously better with him. Chauncey was a pretty inefficient scorer and not a great playmaker. Imo not that great of a 2nd option, Melo has never had a great second option, most championship teams have a big 3, which Melo has never had

Hell Lee Nailon could put up Melo type numbers given the # of minutes and amount of attempts. He's nothing special to me!

I don't think he is elite.

Elite means you are a top 4 or 5 player. In a league with 450 players, the top 1% is 4.5 (hence being one of those 4 or 5 players).

In no particular order
1)Kobe
2)LBJ
3)CPS
4)Wade
5)Durant

Carmelo isn't even in the top 15

6)Love
7)Westbrook
8)Tony Parker
9) Bynum
10) Howard
11) Rose
12) Manu
13) Griffin
14) Aldridge
15) Duncan

So no, he isn't elite. I wouldn't build a team around him, unless we are talking about him as my Scottie Pippin (Jordan needed Pippin).

I wouldnt put Blake Griffin in the top 15 players. But completely agree with your stance on elite.

You can replace Griffin with Greg Monroe. I just don't see Carmelo as anything but a guy who came in with Lebron and has fed off of his hype his entire ride.

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Originally Posted by aas3452

He is arguably the best scorer in the NBA. Thats elite.

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No he's not.

Nene and Billups were very good secondary options.

Melo ain't gonna sniff a championship.

I will take Pau, Shaq, Tony Parker, Manu, or the group of Rip, Wallace, Rasheed, and Prince, Tyson, Kidd and Terry, KG,Ray Allen and Rondo over them all day

There is no arguing Melo's supporting cast was as good as any that won the championship recently

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Originally Posted by rbow.

I will take Pau, Shaq, Tony Parker, Manu, or the group of Rip, Wallace, Rasheed, and Prince, Tyson, Kidd and Terry over them all day

There is no arguing Melo's supporting cast was as good as any that won the championship recently

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But you can also argue that Melo wasn't as good as the go-to guys on those teams.

Plus, Pau was just as valuable as Kobe. Same with KG/Pierce.

No way Terry and Kidd were as good as Nene and Billups. Plus, Chandler was the 2nd most important player on that Mavs team.

I put Tyson in there, and they had Marion, I would easily take those 4 over Melo's top 4

You could definitely argue he's as good as Dirk, Pierce or Billups were

People said the same things about Pierce before his title

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

But you can also argue that Melo wasn't as good as the go-to guys on those teams.

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This. I'd take Dirk, Pierce, Duncan, and pretty much any #1 on a championship team over Melo.

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Originally Posted by The JNR

This. I'd take Dirk, Pierce, Duncan, and pretty much any #1 on a championship team over Melo.

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These are also all Hall of Famers.

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Originally Posted by BallSoHard

These are also all Hall of Famers.

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Sure. But he's saying that Melo is elite and didn't have the supporting cast that the others did. My argument is that even if he did, it wouldn't matter, because he isn't elite.

I dont think he is elite, elite for me is Lebron, Dwight, CP3, and he isnt on those guys level because he doesn't contribute in as many areas, but you could still build a team around him just like Dirk

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

No he's not.

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i disagree. you do know the meaning of arguably...

Name me a player that can shoot from any part of the court, post you up, bully around defenders and score at will.

lebron= mediocre shooter
kobe= not strong enough to bully sf's
wade= too small/ mediocre shooter
durant= not strong enough to back you down.
love=can make contested shots but he can't play on the perimeter
westbrook= mediocre shooter/not strong enough to back down bigger guards

Melo= ding ding ding = elite.

That being said, don't confuse him with being a winner...bc he is not.

Nope, and he gave Amare a bad rep in the process

If Melo could make shots from wherever he would have won a title by now. I think what you mean to say is when Melo is on, he can make almost any shot. But just the same, he isn't in the top 15 (or the top 5), so by definition he is not elite. Heck I think John Hollingers per has Melo ranked in the 30' or 40's.

He is a bigger T-Mac.
Not elite but can score.
He will never carry a team to playoff sucess.