Willie, Griff, And Trajan secretly extended in offseason.

http://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/...1ea0abcce.html

Absolute Basura!

Play in games for life. Yeah starting to agree Zion won’t be here much longer.

And people question why nobody posts here.
The FO and ownership, just aren't serious about ever being a contender and care more about the uneducated fans who continue to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

And people question why nobody posts here.
The FO and ownership, just aren't serious about ever being a contender and care more about the uneducated fans who continue to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

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But but but, they led the league in road wins?. But, they have a high rated defense and offense?.But, they beat good teams...even though those teams rarely were full strength?.but, 0-25 when losing going into the 4th doesn?t matter cause they got 49 wins.

Fan base is the reason they don?t win. If the fan base is happy with the sixth seed and never cares if they are even remotely championship contenders, they will continue to squeak by. Life is about expectations. ?. When you raise the bar, it will get rid of the people that can?t touch it. It?s pretty simple. The lower the expectations, the lower the success rate. People will say, this team just isn?t a top team yet, well that?s because nobody ever expects them to be. It?s not about reality. The reality is what it is, because people with low expectations are 90% of the fan base. The salary of the teams players say they should be winning consistently. Three 30 million players. Lol

And people wonder why our arena is full of Lakers fans . They’re response to that is that they are customers and is long as they buy a ticket and buy our concessions we don’t care. They are giving us money. They are good business people. Can you imagine what the Pelicans players must feel?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

And people wonder why our arena is full of Lakers fans . They?re response to that is that they are customers and is long as they buy a ticket and buy our concessions we don?t care. They are giving us money. They are good business people. Can you imagine what the Pelicans players must feel?

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Yeah, they don?t even try to make a winner . They just want to maintain to sell tickets. As long as ppl will show up with a mediocre product, they will continue to produce one.

Except the other reality is that this team won 49 games in a brutal western conference, the 2nd best record in our history, and several key players showed tremendous growth. On and we did it with a serious hole on the roster at the 5 (which I blame Griffin for..)

I don't disagree that you have to raise the bar and demand better, and that both the coach and GM have to be responsible for our shortcoming this year. But to say that fans supporting one of the team's best seasons EVER are somehow responsible for not being elite is absolute hogwash. I mean it's honestly as absurd an argument as it gets.

So fans are the problem for supporting the team and buying tickets - when we should just walk and way and demand better - but fans are ALSO the problem for supposedly not using their tickets to the Lakers game. Which is it? We support the team too much or not enough?

Also - a ton of fans post on another Pelicans forum. It's crazy active. But I guess those are just "uneducated fans" and the real ones are all here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Except the other reality is that this team won 49 games in a brutal western conference, the 2nd best record in our history, and several key players showed tremendous growth. On and we did it with a serious hole on the roster at the 5 (which I blame Griffin for..)

I don't disagree that you have to raise the bar and demand better, and that both the coach and GM have to be responsible for our shortcoming this year. But to say that fans supporting one of the team's best seasons EVER are somehow responsible for not being elite is absolute hogwash. I mean it's honestly as absurd an argument as it gets.

So fans are the problem for supporting the team and buying tickets - when we should just walk and way and demand better - but fans are ALSO the problem for supposedly not using their tickets to the Lakers game. Which is it? We support the team too much or not enough?

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Exhibit A.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Also - a ton of fans post on another Pelicans forum. It's crazy active. But I guess those are just "uneducated fans" and the real ones are all here?

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I read tiger droppings too. Fans are actively discouraged is what I see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Except the other reality is that this team won 49 games in a brutal western conference, the 2nd best record in our history, and several key players showed tremendous growth. On and we did it with a serious hole on the roster at the 5 (which I blame Griffin for..)

I don't disagree that you have to raise the bar and demand better, and that both the coach and GM have to be responsible for our shortcoming this year. But to say that fans supporting one of the team's best seasons EVER are somehow responsible for not being elite is absolute hogwash. I mean it's honestly as absurd an argument as it gets.

So fans are the problem for supporting the team and buying tickets - when we should just walk and way and demand better - but fans are ALSO the problem for supposedly not using their tickets to the Lakers game. Which is it? We support the team too much or not enough?

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Tickets are cheap tonight . Demand in not high. This morning they were at $15 at one point for a play in game.

Question for you . How many games did we blow in the final minutes of game? See why people are frustrated? You could have at least 54 wins and been a top tier team going into the playoffs. 3 years of PLAYIN GAMES gets old quick. Time to move to the next level or make a change.

Look at what OKC has accomplished in 2 years . Now look at us. See the difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fedupfan

Exhibit A.

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Exhibit B.. as to why this forum is a ghost town. Because this board is 98% doom & gloom - dismissive and often downright nasty towards those who show even the slightest bit of optimism and (gasp) even enthusiasm about the team we root for. I can't tell you the number of times I've logged on during a huge win to see a thread with 5 posts, all of which are massively critical.

As I've said in the past, I don't think this roster as it's currently constructed is a a true contender. So yeah, I think the fact that we won the second most games in franchise history despite a gaping hole at center is reason to feel pretty good about the season. If we don't make the playoffs, the season will still be a disappointment despite the 49 wins. And yes, blowing leads has been super frustrating and it's obvious that some changes need to be made. But this record gets us the 3 seed last year. It's not insane to acknowledge the reality of this year's situation, and it's not pulling the wool over your eyes to state the obvious that the team has a ton of young talent that is still learning (ditto the coach) - but has clearly grown this season in a number of ways.

Seems the only way forward for you and others is to fire everyone, blow the team up, and start from scratch. I think that would be beyond stupid.

And I was talking about the pelicans board on SaintsReport.

Let me know when we make the playoffs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Exhibit B.. as to why this forum is a ghost town. Because this board is 98% doom & gloom - dismissive and often downright nasty towards those who show even the slightest bit of optimism and (gasp) even enthusiasm about the team we root for. I can't tell you the number of times I've logged on during a huge win to see a thread with 5 posts, all of which are massively critical.

As I've said in the past, I don't think this roster as it's currently constructed is a a true contender. So yeah, I think the fact that we won the second most games in franchise history despite a gaping hole at center is reason to feel pretty good about the season. If we don't make the playoffs, the season will still be a disappointment despite the 49 wins. And yes, blowing leads has been super frustrating and it's obvious that some changes need to be made. But this record gets us the 3 seed last year. It's not insane to acknowledge the reality of this year's situation, and it's not pulling the wool over your eyes to state the obvious that the team has a ton of young talent that is still learning (ditto the coach) - but has clearly grown this season in a number of ways.

Seems the only way forward for you and others is to fire everyone, blow the team up, and start from scratch. I think that would be beyond stupid.

And I was talking about the pelicans board on SaintsReport.

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Well that was an interesting thought. Hooray mediocrity! Pray for Zion!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Well that was an interesting thought. Hooray mediocrity! Pray for Zion!

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Exhibit C. Officially done with this board, congrats for running off another!

The Western conference is tough and there is more talent than ever in the NBA right now. It will always be tough. At the end of the day with the talent we have at our disposal, we fell short. We couldn’t even guarantee a playoff spot. I think Griff took too long to get things right. Green would have been the right appointment if he was hired in Gentry’s final year. He was thrown to the wolves and hasn’t really had enough experience in the league to take on such a talented roster. The only one I can sing the praises of is Langdon. He has found lots of talent and we look legitimately good for the first time since the CP3 years. We just were way too inconsistent and a lot of that falls on Green (who I don’t really blame too much). The organization as a whole has just been run poorly and will probably continue to be run poorly. I hope we have a miracle run because I like the squad we have and the guys on the team. I like Willie. I just think it’s asking too much of a coach like Green who needed more time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Except the other reality is that this team won 49 games in a brutal western conference, the 2nd best record in our history, and several key players showed tremendous growth. On and we did it with a serious hole on the roster at the 5 (which I blame Griffin for..)

I don't disagree that you have to raise the bar and demand better, and that both the coach and GM have to be responsible for our shortcoming this year. But to say that fans supporting one of the team's best seasons EVER are somehow responsible for not being elite is absolute hogwash. I mean it's honestly as absurd an argument as it gets.

So fans are the problem for supporting the team and buying tickets - when we should just walk and way and demand better - but fans are ALSO the problem for supposedly not using their tickets to the Lakers game. Which is it? We support the team too much or not enough?

---

The fans are not the problem. I think optimism is a good thing and I think the organization’s owner is a very sweet human being with the right intentions. It just undeniably falls short every year because of poor decisions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neworleanshoo

Exhibit C. Officially done with this board, congrats for running off another!

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Bye. It will be an interesting offseason.

Likely either B.I. or Zion or both are gone next season. Zion's legs could be breaking down. Something that will have to be looked at and a decision will have to be made.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Likely either B.I. or Zion or both are gone next season. Zion's legs could be breaking down. Something that will have to be looked at and a decision will have to be made.

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Zero chance they're both gone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donato

Zero chance they're both gone.

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So you are not extended Herb then? Bad move


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...brandon-ingram

Quote:

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One NBA executive told The Ringer's Howard Beck that the Pels might have to choose between the oft-injured Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram this offseason.

"New Orleans has to make a decision between Zion [Williamson] and [Brandon] Ingram," said an Eastern Conference exec. "I think that happens this summer."

Williamson, Ingram and C.J. McCollum are all earning more than $33 million per season, and players like Herb Jones, Trey Murphy III and Jordan Hawkins will be among those due for extensions in the future.

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Quote:

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If the Pelicans want to retain those players and avoid the luxury tax, it's no surprise Williamson or Ingram could be made available for trade.

While both players are talented, it's worth wondering how the Pelicans feel about Williamson's future in the Big Easy, in particular, given his injury history.

The Duke product has never played a full season and continues to have issues staying on the court.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

So you are not extended Herb then? Bad move


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...brandon-ingram

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Can you read? Are you literate? I said BOTH. Besides, they could easily keep BOTH if they dumped CJ's contract anyway. Not to mention Herb is already under contract for the next three seasons after this one.

Sounds like Ingram is done here . The decision has been made.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donato

Can you read? Are you literate? I said BOTH. Besides, they could easily keep BOTH if they dumped CJ's contract anyway. Not to mention Herb is already under contract for the next three seasons after this one.

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It?s not that easy

Signed

The Luxury tax

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

It?s not that easy

Signed

The Luxury tax

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1. You have trouble with basic reading comprehension.
2. You're unfamiliar with the lengths and amounts of player salaries.
3. You expect us to believe you know how the luxury tax works.

Ok, yeah. I'm done replying to your posts. :hihi:

You know what, I'll just move to the other board altogether and credit you with running off another poster (two in the same thread!). Have fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

So you are not extended Herb then? Bad move


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...brandon-ingram

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Herb has already been extended, so I'd use that in factoring in what that report is worth. Not to mention Hawkins hasn't even finished his first year...we're worried about an extension for him? He can't even get on the floor.

Do I think we should blow things up a bit? Maybe. Should we have had to blow things up? Short answer- no. Again, I don’t think the players are the problem. I don’t think they were the problem when Gentry was here and I don’t think they are the issue now. Do we go for some lower maintenance players to take the coaching out of Willie’s hands?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

And people question why nobody posts here.
The FO and ownership, just aren't serious about ever being a contender and care more about the uneducated fans who continue to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

---

Reddit and Twitter get most of the action. I don't think that's on ownership. And fans are fans. All this qualifying of educated or not instead of just talking ball is why people avoid certain spaces.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JJackisangry

Do I think we should blow things up a bit? Maybe. Should we have had to blow things up? Short answer- no. Again, I don?t think the players are the problem. I don?t think they were the problem when Gentry was here and I don?t think they are the issue now. Do we go for some lower maintenance players to take the coaching out of Willie?s hands?

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Willie is just so bad it?s unbearable. I mean the refusal to play through Jonas to close a game is absurd. They keep putting the worst player on the team in to close games. It makes no sense. I would rather Robinson-Earl all day. Larry is an unplayable situation most of the time. He gives the other team so many advantages that it?s exhausting.

Lowe: There is no world where Trey Murphy and Herb Jones aren't starting on the wing next year.

Pelton: If we're ranking their players, Trey is no lower than third. He is in the top 3 and might not be third. pic.twitter.com/o8uyrftYrf

— Pelicans Film Room (@PelsFilmRoom) April 22, 2024

BI got to go. Glad National media is seeing this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Lowe: There is no world where Trey Murphy and Herb Jones aren't starting on the wing next year.

Pelton: If we're ranking their players, Trey is no lower than third. He is in the top 3 and might not be third. pic.twitter.com/o8uyrftYrf

— Pelicans Film Room (@PelsFilmRoom) April 22, 2024

BI got to go. Glad National media is seeing this

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Problem is, if they are seeing it, so are other GMs. We may not get a lot of value in a trade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Problem is, if they are seeing it, so are other GMs. We may not get a lot of value in a trade.

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You're not going to get huge value in a trade for BI at this point anyway, because the same contract situation that makes him untenable will still exist wherever he goes. He'll still need extending, and that's still going to be expensive. That's why I, and others, wanted to move him last year - it would have maximised value while it existed (of course, last year there was the injury that had a lot of people wanting to put it off to build value, so it's a tricky spot).

I think you just have to accept that you're not going to get true equivalent value for BI at this point, and do it anyway.

Lose a fringe all-star player and get back two really solid rotation players. Buy into Herb's 3pt improvement being real, trust that Trey is taking that leap to the point where he essentially replaces Ingram in terms of scoring upside (he's already more impactful by a lot of advanced metrics, which fits the eye test imo), and explore options for CJ throughout the year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

You're not going to get huge value in a trade for BI at this point anyway, because the same contract situation that makes him untenable will still exist wherever he goes. He'll still need extending, and that's still going to be expensive. That's why I, and others, wanted to move him last year - it would have maximised value while it existed (of course, last year there was the injury that had a lot of people wanting to put it off to build value, so it's a tricky spot).

I think you just have to accept that you're not going to get true equivalent value for BI at this point, and do it anyway.

Lose a fringe all-star player and get back two really solid rotation players. Buy into Herb's 3pt improvement being real, trust that Trey is taking that leap to the point where he essentially replaces Ingram in terms of scoring upside (he's already more impactful by a lot of advanced metrics, which fits the eye test imo), and explore options for CJ throughout the year.

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How about BI, CJ, and a couple 1sts for Trae Young and Capela? I think Trae fits better with Zion and BI fits better with Murray. ATL can work out a contract extension with BI as part of the deal. I don?t think Trae?s market will be super robust due to his defensive limitations and ineffeciency stigma, and no one could offer a reasonable replacement like BI on that team.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

How about BI, CJ, and a couple 1sts for Trae Young and Capela? I think Trae fits better with Zion and BI fits better with Murray. ATL can work out a contract extension with BI as part of the deal. I don?t think Trae?s market will be super robust due to his defensive limitations and ineffeciency stigma, and no one could offer a reasonable replacement like BI on that team.

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I'm always sceptical about Trae Young because on one hand, he is a superlative passer and his shooting threat is huge.

On the other hand, he's a ball-hog who other teammates have notably hated playing with because he won't pass, and if you thought CJ's defense was bad then whoa-boy.

I have a hard time imagining Zion peaking alongside Trae Young because I have a hard time imagining Trae Young actually letting Zion run on-ball. Which is fair because Young himself isn't great off ball and you'd be minimising his talents in doing so. That would mean you could always have one of them on the floor which is good and means you'd always have someone who could create on the court, but you'd also be purposefully acquiring a mega-star who steps on the toes of your existing mega-star, and potentially stymies the growth of hopeful mega-stars like Trey.

It's a difficult situation. I'm not sure how much I like it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm always sceptical about Trae Young because on one hand, he is a superlative passer and his shooting threat is huge.

On the other hand, he's a ball-hog who other teammates have notably hated playing with because he won't pass, and if you thought CJ's defense was bad then whoa-boy.

I have a hard time imagining Zion peaking alongside Trae Young because I have a hard time imagining Trae Young actually letting Zion run on-ball. Which is fair because Young himself isn't great off ball and you'd be minimising his talents in doing so. That would mean you could always have one of them on the floor which is good and means you'd always have someone who could create on the court, but you'd also be purposefully acquiring a mega-star who steps on the toes of your existing mega-star, and potentially stymies the growth of hopeful mega-stars like Trey.

It's a difficult situation. I'm not sure how much I like it.

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Trae Young is CJ if he was an actual PG. I like the fit far more than extending BI and hampering Murphy’s growth. Getting rid of BI and CJ clears the way for Murphy (starting SG) and Hawkins (future 6th man SG, Jamal Crawford lite). Having Murphy, Herb and Capela starting with Jose, Dyson, and Larry off the bench would still give us great defense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Trae Young is CJ if he was an actual PG. I like the fit far more than extending BI and hampering Murphy’s growth. Getting rid of BI and CJ clears the way for Murphy (starting SG) and Hawkins (future 6th man SG, Jamal Crawford lite). Having Murphy, Herb and Capela starting with Jose, Dyson, and Larry off the bench would still give us great defense.

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I don't think Trae and CJ have that much in common at all. They play completely differently, they take different types of threes and have wildly different efficiency when doing so, and they're not comparable as defenders either.

I've said a hundred times that I also don't want to extend BI, but given that it's not a binary (that is, either extend BI or get Trae, no alternatives at all) I don't see why I would have to evaluate the two things against each other exclusively. Would I rather test the waters with Trae than pay BI? Probably, but I'd rather look at the other options too.

Besides, does keeping BI hamper Trey's growth more than acquiring Trae? I'm not sure. Again, Trae is a massive ball-hog, I'd be sceptical of him giving Zion on ball reps, let alone Trey Murphy. Trey's a fantastic shooter but I don't want him to become exclusively a spot up guy whenever Trae's on the floor, and I think that's a concern worth having.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't think Trae and CJ have that much in common at all. They play completely differently, they take different types of threes and have wildly different efficiency when doing so, and they're not comparable as defenders either.

I've said a hundred times that I also don't want to extend BI, but given that it's not a binary (that is, either extend BI or get Trae, no alternatives at all) I don't see why I would have to evaluate the two things against each other exclusively. Would I rather test the waters with Trae than pay BI? Probably, but I'd rather look at the other options too.

Besides, does keeping BI hamper Trey's growth more than acquiring Trae? I'm not sure. Again, Trae is a massive ball-hog, I'd be sceptical of him giving Zion on ball reps, let alone Trey Murphy. Trey's a fantastic shooter but I don't want him to become exclusively a spot up guy whenever Trae's on the floor, and I think that's a concern worth having.

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What other options do you think will be available to trade BI and replace him with anyone of quality? Maybe Bridges, Lavine, a broken down Klay, Jordan Poole, DeAndre Ayton? None of those guys fill the massive need at PG. One of the Atlanta PGs seems to be the most realistic option. BI isn’t a bad player, just not a max player to be playing next to Zion. he will definitely have a market.

I think if you can get Dejounte Murray and Onyeka Okongwu from ATL for BI and 2024 pick you do that 11 times out of 10.

Murray and Herb defensively in the backcourt improves greatly from CJ and Herb.

A starting line up of:

Murray
Herb
Trey
Zion
Okongwu

Is such a good fit both offensively and defensivly.

Bench

CJ*
Alvarado
Daniels
Hawkins
Ryan
Nance*

*trade and upgarde at the deadline.

I thought CP3 was an UFA. He is on a 1 year $30 million deal. I’d trade CJ for CP3 straight up. CJ deserves to be a splash brother. This is the most probable move for the Pels in the offseason imo. Griff is likely keeping BI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

I thought CP3 was an UFA. He is on a 1 year $30 million deal. I’d trade CJ for CP3 straight up. CJ deserves to be a splash brother. This is the most probable move for the Pels in the offseason imo. Griff is likely keeping BI.

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Would love that, but its not long term. Still want BI gone for DM and OO.
That would make my offseason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN

Would love that, but its not long term. Still want BI gone for DM and OO.
That would make my offseason.

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Rumor is that Atlanta wants to keep Murray over Young but one will be traded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Rumor is that Atlanta wants to keep Murray over Young but one will be traded.

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This is where you add some draft comp. Can't hang onto it for ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'm always sceptical about Trae Young because on one hand, he is a superlative passer and his shooting threat is huge.

On the other hand, he's a ball-hog who other teammates have notably hated playing with because he won't pass, and if you thought CJ's defense was bad then whoa-boy.

I have a hard time imagining Zion peaking alongside Trae Young because I have a hard time imagining Trae Young actually letting Zion run on-ball. Which is fair because Young himself isn't great off ball and you'd be minimising his talents in doing so. That would mean you could always have one of them on the floor which is good and means you'd always have someone who could create on the court, but you'd also be purposefully acquiring a mega-star who steps on the toes of your existing mega-star, and potentially stymies the growth of hopeful mega-stars like Trey.

It's a difficult situation. I'm not sure how much I like it.

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I agree. Not sure Trae makes sense for us.

Lakers will go in on Trae Young . Especially if one of the Lakers babies runs away from them.