The New Orleans Pelicans' medical staff

Has there been any news on changes to the staff or adjustments to their mentality? We've seemed to have a relatively poor staff compared to other teams.

I ask because we have both Gentry and Phil Weber joining the team and both spent a lot of time with the Phoenix suns and their legendary medical staff. This seems like something they would have addressed or at the very least talked about. Has Gentry mentioned using the advanced analytics from GS that kept their team so healthy last year?

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Originally Posted by Schmide234

Has there been any news on changes to the staff or adjustments to their mentality? We've seemed to have a relatively poor staff compared to other teams.

I ask because we have both Gentry and Phil Weber joining the team and both spent a lot of time with the Phoenix suns and their legendary medical staff. This seems like something they would have addressed or at the very least talked about. Has Gentry mentioned using the advanced analytics from GS that kept their team so healthy last year?

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Gentry has talked about advanced analytics but not when it comes to health. Hopefully we (Gentry and staff) start to poke and pry before the season starts as to why our players had so many injuries and why they generally took so long to come back. Sure we can't do anything about Ryno's back incident or any other freak accident but man some of these teams keep their players in tip top shape somehow.

I heard Amin Elhassan on a recent podcast say that the trainers in Phoenix had the authority to fine players if they didn't think the players were doing what they (the training staff) thought they (the players) should be doing.

Maybe, and I stress maybe, our players haven't been doing ALL they can be doing (stretching, warming up etc.) to help prevent injuries and there is no one on the staff that holds them accountable.

Just one possible small piece of the injury puzzle.

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Originally Posted by Tomdda

I heard Amin Elhassan on a recent podcast say that the trainers in Phoenix had the authority to fine players if they didn't think the players were doing what they (the training staff) thought they (the players) should be doing.

Maybe, and I stress maybe, our players haven't been doing ALL they can be doing (stretching, warming up etc.) to help prevent injuries and there is no one on the staff that holds them accountable.

Just one possible small piece of the injury puzzle.

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Yea I heard him say that too. Whatever changes were made it appears as if our players are sticking to their regiments now. Maybe our staff is able to fine players now too...

Our staff hasn't changed much (besides two fellows who have since moved on), but the injuries to players have less to do with the staff than people here think. You hear players say, "I know my body." And they do, but they are basketball players (not doctors), so while they might think things are better, and that they can quit their training, they do while casting aside the advice of the staff that is paid to know how to get the player's body right.

I believe a better mix of minuets will help keep guys healthy, but players actually taking the advice of the staff will go a lot further.

Don't hire Dr. Acula. That dude sucks.

RIP Mitch

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Our staff hasn't changed much (besides two fellows who have since moved on), but the injuries to players have less to do with the staff than people here think. You hear players say, "I know my body." And they do, but they are basketball players (not doctors), so while they might think things are better, and that they can quit their training, they do while casting aside the advice of the staff that is paid to know how to get the player's body right.

I believe a better mix of minuets will help keep guys healthy, but players actually taking the advice of the staff will go a lot further.

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Our coaching staff? I thought our entire core coaching staff left, other than the Kevin Hanson and Fred Vinson

Sean Payton said the Saints and Pels each got a cryotherapy chamber. Does the job of an ice bath but you only need to use it for 3 minutes. The Pelicans got a new head trainer last year (former long time #2 trainer with the Saints). People look at the results and think there must be something wrong, but we really don't know enough to think firing the staff is good or bad. In fact I'd argue that most people who want to fire the staff don't know enough to even suggest that because everyone I've seen suggesting it was ignorant of having a new head trainer last year. (not aiming that at you OP, lots of people think we can fire our way to better health)

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Originally Posted by Tomdda

I heard Amin Elhassan on a recent podcast say that the trainers in Phoenix had the authority to fine players if they didn't think the players were doing what they (the training staff) thought they (the players) should be doing.

Maybe, and I stress maybe, our players haven't been doing ALL they can be doing (stretching, warming up etc.) to help prevent injuries and there is no one on the staff that holds them accountable.

Just one possible small piece of the injury puzzle.

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This would be great for us to implement (and all teams really). It's like any other job. You don't do your work you suffer the consequences. Especially when it impacts the owners bottom line. Players unhealthy and can't play means less wins and butts in the seats.

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Originally Posted by BP225

Sean Payton said the Saints and Pels each got a cryotherapy chamber. Does the job of an ice bath but you only need to use it for 3 minutes. The Pelicans got a new head trainer last year (former long time #2 trainer with the Saints). People look at the results and think there must be something wrong, but we really don't know enough to think firing the staff is good or bad. In fact I'd argue that most people who want to fire the staff don't know enough to even suggest that because everyone I've seen suggesting it was ignorant of having a new head trainer last year. (not aiming that at you OP, lots of people think we can fire our way to better health)

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Good point. These are the same trainers and doctors that work with the Saints. Seriously doubt they are going to ditch Ochsner when they get serious money in advertising from them.

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Originally Posted by BP225

Sean Payton said the Saints and Pels each got a cryotherapy chamber. Does the job of an ice bath but you only need to use it for 3 minutes. The Pelicans got a new head trainer last year (former long time #2 trainer with the Saints). People look at the results and think there must be something wrong, but we really don't know enough to think firing the staff is good or bad. In fact I'd argue that most people who want to fire the staff don't know enough to even suggest that because everyone I've seen suggesting it was ignorant of having a new head trainer last year. (not aiming that at you OP, lots of people think we can fire our way to better health)

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All good points. I don't blame our staff at all for the health of our players though. It is just known how effective the medical tactics in Phoenix and GS were and was wondering if there had been news on us adapting those techniques. Although overall health is hard to pin on our staff, I would like to see us adopt some of those strategies.

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Originally Posted by DanceWithDavis

Our coaching staff? I thought our entire core coaching staff left, other than the Kevin Hanson and Fred Vinson

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No, the training staff.

Still don't think I have read where a single critic of the medical staff has one solid credential or specific information as to why whatever actions were and were not taken may have been erroneous. Rather, when things come to light after the fact, it seems the staff did make good choices, e.g., Holiday not following offseason protocols.

Please, save everyone the time and trouble by keeping your uninformed speculation to yourselves.

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Originally Posted by 42

Still don't think I have read where a single critic of the medical staff has one solid credential or specific information as to why whatever actions were and were not taken may have been erroneous. Rather, when things come to light after the fact, it seems the staff did make good choices, e.g., Holiday not following offseason protocols.

Please, save everyone the time and trouble by keeping your uninformed speculation to yourselves.

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But, then what is the point of this site, all most of us can offer is uninformed speculation? LOL!

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Originally Posted by redrum

But, then what is the point of this site, all most of us can offer is uninformed speculation? LOL!

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You just did two of them... Ask questions, have fun.

Yeah?

For those interested - https://www.uq.edu.au/news/article/2...end-of-ice-age

New research from here which is showing the old Ice Bath may be hindering the long term growth and strength training. Previous research has hinted at it.

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Originally Posted by 42

Still don't think I have read where a single critic of the medical staff has one solid credential or specific information as to why whatever actions were and were not taken may have been erroneous. Rather, when things come to light after the fact, it seems the staff did make good choices, e.g., Holiday not following offseason protocols.

Please, save everyone the time and trouble by keeping your uninformed speculation to yourselves.

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I don't get it is this directed towards me? Let me rephrase so that this discussion can grace your presence:

Do we know if our medical staff is taking on any new policies that match the legendary Phoenix Suns or GSW that kept their teams so healthy? If not, do we know if our staff was already following those procedures?

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Originally Posted by Schmide234

I don't get it is this directed towards me? Let me rephrase so that this discussion can grace your presence:

Do we know if our medical staff is taking on any new policies that match the legendary Phoenix Suns or GSW that kept their teams so healthy? If not, do we know if our staff was already following those procedures?

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This, or something like it, is directing a comment, just like you did.

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Originally Posted by 42

This, or something like it, is directing a comment, just like you did.

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Okay yes it was. So if your comment was not directed what is it's purpose? I'm not trying to argue with you here but just understand your place in this thread

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Originally Posted by Schmide234

Okay yes it was. So if your comment was not directed what is it's purpose? I'm not trying to argue with you here but just understand your place in this thread

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If it applies to you, so be it.

This is an ongoing topic much larger than any thread, and we both know it.

If you have some facts to add, please state them. If not, I'll invite you to reflect on your purpose in this thread. You seem to be asking things, something I clearly support.

Not seeing the bad thing here.

My contact within the medical staff is gone off to work for another sports team, but what our team's staff does isn't any different than what the staffs of other teams do (in terms of medical practice). The Suns are bit luckier than most, but that doesn't mean their staff is better than ours, just that they have a rabbits foot lodged into their depth chart. Jrue coming here injured wasn't an indictment of our medical staff, it was an indictment of shady business practices. Gordon being injured isn't an indictment of our training staff, it was an indictment of bad timing. People get hurt throughout the season, the medical staff isn't running on the court and tackling their own players, and when players are in their trust, the players don't always listen to them. I know that the Pels put the fear of God into Jrue after it came to light he hadn't been following the recommendations of the staff, but now that my friend is gone, I am not sure if that is how they will get to players, or if they will fine them. The players can't just go by, "WELL, I KNOW MY BODY." That doesn't work when you aren't a doctor...heck that doesn't work when you are a doctor.

Let us give this staff a chance before laying the blame of broken players at their feet.

I don't blame the staff for everything but what is the point of a medical staff if every single injury is blamed on something else and not them? I see nothing but excuses how this guy was injury prone or bad luck. We mite have a very good staff but up to this point they have done nothing result wise to prove they are.

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Originally Posted by 42

Still don't think I have read where a single critic of the medical staff has one solid credential or specific information as to why whatever actions were and were not taken may have been erroneous. Rather, when things come to light after the fact, it seems the staff did make good choices, e.g., Holiday not following offseason protocols.

Please, save everyone the time and trouble by keeping your uninformed speculation to yourselves.

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Through a tweet, I suggested to someone on the BSS staff that I thought an article on the Pelicans' training staff and practices might have wide appeal considering the team's well documented injury history. His reply was that many requests had been made to the team for such an article but that the team basically didn't want to discuss it (or something to that effect).

So it seems to me there isn't much left to talk about except uninformed speculation since the team isn't inclined to provide (hardly) any facts to its fanbase, at least where the injury topic is concerned. And considering all of the injuries the team and its fan base has had to endure over the last few seasons, I would think that more than a little frustration has set in, partly due to the team's lack of transparency on the injury front.

The point of all of this is to say that my uninformed speculation is a direct result of my frustration. Just "thinking out loud", if you will, looking for answers or explanations since none (or very little) is coming from the team.

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Originally Posted by Tomdda

Through a tweet, I suggested to someone on the BSS staff that I thought an article on the Pelicans' training staff and practices might have wide appeal considering the team's well documented injury history. His reply was that many requests had been made to the team for such an article but that the team basically didn't want to discuss it (or something to that effect).

So it seems to me there isn't much left to talk about except uninformed speculation since the team isn't inclined to provide (hardly) any facts to its fanbase, at least where the injury topic is concerned. And considering all of the injuries the team and its fan base has had to endure over the last few seasons, I would think that more than a little frustration has set in, partly due to the team's lack of transparency on the injury front.

The point of all of this is to say that my uninformed speculation is a direct result of my frustration. Just "thinking out loud", if you will, looking for answers or explanations since none (or very little) is coming from the team.

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I have tried, and will keep trying, to get this info.

Much of what is germane is very private... The details of injuries. Not all breaks are the same.

Nevertheless, we try.

What do people really want to know, what exercises the training staff is putting players through, or are we going right into the HIPAA Zone? If its exercises then go ask your local sports medicine friend, if its injuries, go get a court order.

Just shooting off the cuff because as others have said, we have very little details coming from the organization to make more informed opinions, but I can't imagine that the medical staff is just a bunch of buffoons. I do however think like anything, it would probably be to the teams advantage to give our current staff more tools to make better decisions.

Ive made a thread on it before but I would love to see the Pelicans embrace the sort of injury analytics that the Warriors have used. The sort of cutting edge rehabilitation programs Milwaukee have embraced. Taking a long hard look at the Phoenix infrastructure and trying to replicate it. Giving our doctors and training staff more quality insight and data about our players bodies can only be beneficial.

If for nothing else it is added insurance to help keep your 140 million dollar investment possibly a little bit healthier and little bit happier.

Just to play devils advocate, the Warriors "cutting edge analytics" had pretty poor results (for those looking at only results) every season until last year. There was an article on it but I am on my phone and don't feel like looking. Point is, that the Pelicans have spent a lot of time looking into numerous things but there is no fool proof recipe and we can't see behind the curtain. When all you have to analyze is results and no process, it is hard to ever have a real conversation

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Originally Posted by 42

I have tried, and will keep trying, to get this info.

Much of what is germane is very private... The details of injuries. Not all breaks are the same.

Nevertheless, we try.

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I should've known before I asked that BSS had made an effort to get more info on this topic, and I appreciate the efforts y'all make to get, write and publish the articles that y'all do. My experience as a Pels' fan would not be near as fun as it has been without the interaction I've had with BSS writers thru Twitter and going to watch parties, etc.

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Originally Posted by Tomdda

I should've known before I asked that BSS had made an effort to get more info on this topic, and I appreciate the efforts y'all make to get, write and publish the articles that y'all do. My experience as a Pels' fan would not be near as fun as it has been without the interaction I've had with BSS writers thru Twitter and going to watch parties, etc.

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Nah, you keep on asking. Asking publicly reinforces the need, man. We take that seriously, and it actually does give the (award-winning) staff some weight to the requests.

Honestly, BSS is the best place to deal with such a deep issue, and I think they know that.

In an interview with Amin a few years back I recall him saying that the Suns would work with their training staff when looking at acquiring players. Its a great way to get a competitive advantage over other teams. You could bring in players with lower value if you knew you could fix them. Amin said that the trainers looked at Shaq and Grant Hill, examined their gait, and were able to almost instantly say what was wrong with the player and if it was fixable. Remember when Amar'e was a free agent and Phoenix didn't pay the max for him? He had one great year and then succumbed to injuries that he never recovered from. Do you think that the staff may have been in on that decision? His knee was a known issue.

But this entire topic is causation vs correlation. If Steve Nash went down for a season do we look at them the same way even though the medical staff would have done all the same things? We'll never know, but what we know is that the Suns valued their training staff, relied on them, and you can probably assume believed that they had the best training staff for a while.

Our training staff could be better than that Suns staff but all we see is the results, none of us know the practices. All we see is that we have had more injuries and for what the diagnosis are, it seems like the players recover slower (besides WolveReke and that hand injury to AD that he returned from quicker than we originally thought). That doesn't mean that our staff is worse than any others. As Jason pointed out, we acquired Eric Gordon. That was during the peak of those Suns training staff days. They certainly believed he was fixable and offered him a max contract. Yet he fell apart. We acquired Jrue Holiday, there was clearly something strange that happened there with the 76ers that we'll never know the details of. Then he didn't take the correct course to heal, ignoring the doctors' orders (if I am interpreting that strange situation correctly). Ryno's injury last year was about as freak of an injury as you could get with a wild Gerald Wallace running into him.

There is no way for us to say how good our training staff is, but we can see the results which are a mixed bag and finding any definitive answer is a fools game because all you can go off of is the results. But we being results instead of process oriented is a slippery slope. At some point though, you'd have to say "whatever it is you're doing doesn't appear to be working" but I don't know where you decide to draw that line.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Just to play devils advocate, the Warriors "cutting edge analytics" had pretty poor results (for those looking at only results) every season until last year. There was an article on it but I am on my phone and don't feel like looking. Point is, that the Pelicans have spent a lot of time looking into numerous things but there is no fool proof recipe and we can't see behind the curtain. When all you have to analyze is results and no process, it is hard to ever have a real conversation

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Didn't some of their more advanced medical analytics just start this year? Seems to have an effect on health, or at least the GSWs think so.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...s.html?ana=twt