How good is Jrue Holiday?

Man. The way Jrue played last season really impressed me. I think he is entering his prime this year. Rondo made him better but I honestly think Jrue is going to be just fine without Rondo. He played like a star player, he’s one of the best guards in the league. He’s not as flashy and his personality is pretty laid back but I bet if he acted really cocky and aggressive he’d be treated more like a star player. What’s missing in Jrue’s game? He’s good at everything. He can score on anyone in ISO. He can guard just about anyone. He is a decent 3 point shooter and a good facilitator. He rebounds well and has decent bbiq.

I think he needs to improve his shooting, mainly his 3 point shooting. Do more catch and shoot spot up shooting. If he improves his shooting, and improves his FT percentage and shows more leadership as a playmaker and is more clutch it will be fair to say he is a borderline superstar. These are big expectations but if he can improve in all these areas the league better watch out!!!

https://youtu.be/47t7GLsiXo8


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Holiday's game is so under appreciated by average NBA fans. Watch those highlights and just watch the crossover he uses to get open in the paint. That is a super nasty move. He turned around Dame, CJ, and Turner all with his crossover.

Jrue's biggest weakness was he wasn't consistent but it finally looks like he figured it out last season.

I'm not super interested in Jrue trying to go back to Spot up 3pt shooting. That's what his game was before this season. Jrue really turned his corner whenever he figured out how to consistently beat guys in and around the paint. I want him to just focus on becoming a beast taking guys off the dribble.

Anyone who watched the playoffs knows how good he is. He was effectively unstoppable on offense. And I agree with Mythrol, while it would be great if he was a lights out 3pt catch and shot guy his shot is still effective and his strength is his ability to break down anyone in the league in penetration and finish at the rim or disrupt the defense and find an open guy. I mean I feel like I didn't see him miss a single shot inside 8-10ft in the playoffs and none of them were easy. And he did this over a significant stretch of games while playing what I think is the best perimeter defense consistently that I have ever seen.

Theres no sense trying to make him Steph Curry when there are a ton of guys who would love to be Jrue Holiday. If his playoff performance is his consistent self he isn't a "borderline" anything.

Jrue is already an all-star in my book. The people that wanted him gone are thankfully no where to be found. If he duplicates last years performance, the Pels brass would be wise to tear up his contract and max him to new 10 yr service deal keeping him here for the long run.

I agree with Mythrol, his biggest issue before last season was consistency. He's a defensive stalwart, a strong passer, a decent shooter, and an absolutely elite finisher at the rim.

I don't even agree with the idea that he needs to be more clutch; Jrue was last season's 7th best scorer in clutch situations, and very little of it was assisted: it was mostly him making stuff happen. That's as clutch as I need from anyone.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Jrue is already an all-star in my book. The people that wanted him gone are thankfully no where to be found. If he duplicates last years performance, the Pels brass would be wise to tear up his contract and max him to new 10 yr service deal keeping him here for the long run.

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Nahhh, hes paid very well for what he does.. Hes still under contract for 3 more years after this year, hes not going anywhere

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Originally Posted by soggymoss

Nahhh, hes paid very well for what he does.. Hes still under contract for 3 more years after this year, hes not going anywhere

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That's the kind of thinking that causes these guys to ask for outs. Don't forget, Jrue took less to stay here and if he produces again he is going to want to get paid like his peers. That extra 8-12 mil per and new 5 yr keeps him here till his last contract. Also, next summer we supermax AD. Now the 2 best players are here till 2024 at least. If we ******** him off by not doing it, who knows what AD thinks???????? IF Jrue makes us trade him like CP3 or Kwahi, AD will follow suit. The ball is still in Jrue's court this yr. If it's a good one, Dell better not drop it.

He isn't even eligible to negotiate a new contract yet. We took a chance on him giving him a huge 5yr deal. He is happy and we are too. No need to try and over think it.

So many missed big free throws at end of games. He is baller for sure, I was always nervous when he went to the line tho.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

He isn't even eligible to negotiate a new contract yet. We took a chance on him giving him a huge 5yr deal. He is happy and we are too. No need to try and over think it.

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Are you saying that after 2 years into a 4 plus 1 contract the parties are unable to renegotiate? If that is a fact, then I stand corrected, if not, then I don't think it's being overthought. Just proactive!

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Are you saying that after 2 years into a 4 plus 1 contract the parties are unable to renegotiate? If that is a fact, then I stand corrected, if not, then I don't think it's being overthought. Just proactive!

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It's not a 4+1 deal in the eyes of the NBA just because Jrue has a player option in year 5. It still is viewed as a 5 year deal. Which means the earliest he could sign an extension would be after the 3rd season of it.

Not only that but a veteran extension can only be for a total length of 5 years. Meaning currently what's left plus the extended contract can only equal 5 total seasons. There are no 10 year contracts in the NBA or any way to extend a player for that long.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

It's not a 4+1 deal in the eyes of the NBA just because Jrue has a player option in year 5. It still is viewed as a 5 year deal. Which means the earliest he could sign an extension would be after the 3rd season of it.

Not only that but a veteran extension can only be for a total length of 5 years. Meaning currently what's left plus the extended contract can only equal 5 total seasons. There are no 10 year contracts in the NBA or any way to extend a player for that long.

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Thanks for the info of 3 seasons in before extension eligible, didn't know that. However; I have no clue why you mentioned this ten yr contract. I didn't say that at all. Was very clear that it would end in 2024. He has 10 yrs or service in after this season, that was the basic principle for my logic. Regardless, that's even better for Pels, and I guess you were right, no reason to over think it.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Thanks for the info of 3 seasons in before extension eligible, didn't know that. However; I have no clue why you mentioned this ten yr contract. I didn't say that at all. Was very clear that it would end in 2024. He has 10 yrs or service in after this season, that was the basic principle for my logic. Regardless, that's even better for Pels, and I guess you were right, no reason to over think it.

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Ah I thought you were saying you wanted to extend his contract so it would run for 10 total years. Like Add another 5 years to the end of this one. I see now what you were saying.

Yes, he's locked in to a good long term deal that everyone should be happy with.

Jrue needs to get to the freethrow line more. Improving 3 point shooting would be nice, but his freethrow rate is what's really keeping him from being a perennial allstar.

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

Jrue needs to get to the freethrow line more. Improving 3 point shooting would be nice, but his freethrow rate is what's really keeping him from being a perennial allstar.

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That's kinda true. Jrue only shot 2.9 FTA per game this year. Number one in the league was Harden, who shot 10. AD was second, he shot 8. If Jrue could get up to around 4, that would be huge, but that's not entirely on him. The refs just watch him get bashed around and refuse to call it.

I really liked playoff Jrue. Best I've seen him play.

Hopefully, the star power recognition he received from last years efforts (first team defense, playoff monster) gets him a few more calls from the refs. Alvin said throughout last season how Jrue was in a good place mentally. He got better and better leading up to the Portland sweep. A bit of help from Rondo early on gave him a bit of a push. I truly believe that he feels this is his and AD's team now and they will lead the rest of our very talented young guys going forward. I don't like to predict W and L's due to unknown injury factors. But if we can stay healthy there is no team we can't beat. Including Booger's team.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Jrue is already an all-star in my book. The people that wanted him gone are thankfully no where to be found. If he duplicates last years performance, the Pels brass would be wise to tear up his contract and max him to new 10 yr service deal keeping him here for the long run.

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I wanted him gone and I'm right here. The decision to sign Holiday was the low percentage move. Last year was year one of his contract. Injuries has been the problem along with (as previously pointed out) consistency. Hopefully Holiday has figured it out, but fans are too up and down based on portions of a season. Lillard and McCollum aren't the greatest defenders. However there's definitely reason to be optimistic about Holiday and his contract that didn't exist just last off season when we gave him the deal.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I wanted him gone and I'm right here. The decision to sign Holiday was the low percentage move. Last year was year one of his contract. Injuries has been the problem along with (as previously pointed out) consistancy. Hopefully Holiday has figured it out, but fans are too up and down based on portions of a season. Lillard and McCollum aren't the greatest defenders. However there's definitely reason to be optimistic about Holiday and his contract that didn't exist just last off season when we gave him the deal.

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I don't really think you can hold injuries against Jrue at this point, at least not as a big factor. The last two seasons, he's missed 4 games due to injury (obviously he only played 67 games in 2016-17 but that's not due to injury, and we can't hold that against him). That's less games than James Harden missed this season alone. Less than Curry missed this season alone. Less than CP3, Mike Conley, Lonzo Ball, Rondo, Kyrie Irving, Lillard, John Wall, and Goran Dragic, just to name other guards. He hasn't been seriously impacted by injury since three years ago.

As for consistency, I think he's solved that problem. He started off the season slowly, with a few single digit scoring games, largely due to the fact that the team was still adjusting. AD didn't play his best basketball during this time span either: people were trying adjust to Cousins, who was putting up big numbers. But from December until the end of the season, Jrue averaged 20.1/4.6/6.2/1.6/1 on 50.5% from the field and 36.2% from 3. That's a 60 game sample size, and those numbers only increase during the 9 playoff games he played. So that's 69 games of basically putting up 20/5/6 on 50%+ efficiency. That's basically a full season (more games than many of the earlier named guys played this season). If a full season of playing at that standard is 'inconsistent', especially for a player just entering his prime years (Jrue just turned 28), then I'll take inconsistent any day.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

I wanted him gone and I'm right here. The decision to sign Holiday was the low percentage move. Last year was year one of his contract. Injuries has been the problem along with (as previously pointed out) consistancy. Hopefully Holiday has figured it out, but fans are too up and down based on portions of a season. Lillard and McCollum aren't the greatest defenders. However there's definitely reason to be optimistic about Holiday and his contract that didn't exist just last off season when we gave him the deal.

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Glad to see you are optimistic about his contract. Likewise, glad you are here, you bring valuable insight to the forum. Also respect your opinion that it was a low percentage move. But that is where we differ. You probably didn't factor in his entire life situation to your calculation. Had you done so as I and many others here did, you may have seen that the percentage was not low at all, quite the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I don't really think you can hold injuries against Jrue at this point, at least not as a big factor. The last two seasons, he's missed 4 games due to injury (obviously he only played 67 games in 2016-17 but that's not due to injury, and we can't hold that against him). That's less games than James Harden missed this season alone. Less than Curry missed this season alone. Less than CP3, Mike Conley, Lonzo Ball, Rondo, Kyrie Irving, Lillard, John Wall, and Goran Dragic, just to name other guards. He hasn't been seriously impacted by injury since three years ago.

As for consistency, I think he's solved that problem. He started off the season slowly, with a few single digit scoring games, largely due to the fact that the team was still adjusting. AD didn't play his best basketball during this time span either: people were trying adjust to Cousins, who was putting up big numbers. But from December until the end of the season, Jrue averaged 20.1/4.6/6.2/1.6/1 on 50.5% from the field and 36.2% from 3. That's a 60 game sample size, and those numbers only increase during the 9 playoff games he played. So that's 69 games of basically putting up 20/5/6 on 50%+ efficiency. That's basically a full season (more games than many of the earlier named guys played this season). If a full season of playing at that standard is 'inconsistent', especially for a player just entering his prime years (Jrue just turned 28), then I'll take inconsistent any day.

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I don't disagree with this post. Hopefully this is the Jrue we get and certainly the one we expected after the trade 5 years ago. My point was there were major issues re-signing Holiday last year and I'm not going to act like there wasn't because of hindsight after one season.

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Originally Posted by Silver Nail

Glad to see you are optimistic about his contract. Likewise, glad you are here, you bring valuable insight to the forum. Also respect your opinion that it was a low percentage move. But that is where we differ. You probably didn't factor in his entire life situation to your calculation. Had you done so as I and many others here did, you may have seen that the percentage was not low at all, quite the opposite.

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No I factored in pretty much everything and just concluded there was more to go wrong than right. Unfortunately those factors aren't completely gone. Jrue always had tangibles that were attractive. Shooting, slashing, and top notch defense. The problems were his knack for making big errors at key times, disappearing for games and an inability to stay healthy. I think one potential problem for next year that's are over looked is how taking away pg duties helped his game. Now without Rondo (one of the all time premier passer) as the point will he be able to thrive? Again as a fan I can only hope everything works itself out.

Jrue has only had 1 major injury in his entire 9 year career. It has been 3 full seasons since his 1 major injury healed and the most he has gotten since then was an orbital facture from taking a random elbow to the face. This narrative that Jrue has an inability to stay healthy is simply wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Jrue has only had 1 major injury in his entire 9 year career. It has been 3 full seasons since his 1 major injury healed and the most he has gotten since then was an orbital facture from taking a random elbow to the face. This narrative that Jrue has an inability to stay healthy is simply wrong.

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Ok so not counting the last 2 season. This year was the 1st of the new deal and the previous year he missed a bunch of game due to his wife.

The 3 seasons before he was a Pelican he played in 139 of 246 games which is 57% of potential games. Are you telling me that's not an injury issue.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Ok so not counting the last 2 season. This year was the 1st of the new deal and the previous year he missed a bunch of game due to his wife.

The 3 seasons before he was a Pelican he played in 139 of 246 games which is 57% of potential games. Are you telling me that's not an injury issue.

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Correct. He had 1 injury that took 2 seasons to get corrected. The following season he was brought along slowly to ensure that everything was healed properly. He has had no major injuries since. It has been 3 full seasons since that one major injury he had.

One injury does not mean he has an injury issue. You cannot discredit 3 full seasons without injury to try and build up this narrative that he is an injury risk. Especially when those 3 seasons are the 3 most recent.

All I know for sure is that a while back the media asked AD what was his favorite holiday? And he responded; "That's easy, Jrue!" So love him or hate him, glad he is here.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Correct. He had 1 injury that took 2 seasons to get corrected. The following season he was brought along slowly to ensure that everything was healed properly. He has had no major injuries since. It has been 3 full seasons since that one major injury he had.

One injury does not mean he has an injury issue. You cannot discredit 3 full seasons without injury to try and build up this narrative that he is an injury risk. Especially when those 3 seasons are the 3 most recent.

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The terminology and the lack of acknowledging the re-injury of said injury over a 2 year span really put the brake on this spin control. He's not injury prone, but he clearly HAD an injury issue for 2 years as it wasn't healing properly and we get little worth out of his bargain bin contract at the time. Does he have an injury issue at the moment... Clearly no. Was he ever injury prone... No.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Correct. He had 1 injury that took 2 seasons to get corrected. The following season he was brought along slowly to ensure that everything was healed properly. He has had no major injuries since. It has been 3 full seasons since that one major injury he had.

One injury does not mean he has an injury issue. You cannot discredit 3 full seasons without injury to try and build up this narrative that he is an injury risk. Especially when those 3 seasons are the 3 most recent.

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So he doesn't play for precautionary reasons and that's considered healthy? Of course if you play 3/5 of a season it's far more likely to be "healthy".

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Originally Posted by Taker597

The terminology and the lack of acknowledging the re-injury of said injury over a 2 year span really put the brake on this spin control. He's not injury prone, but he clearly HAD an injury issue for 2 years as it wasn't healing properly and we get little worth out of his bargain bin contract at the time. Does he have an injury issue at the moment... Clearly no. Was he ever injury prone... No.

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One extremely complex injury that required additional surgeries to finish fixing it. That is not injury prone. That's called modern medicine. They had to remove screws that were put into it because he was having pain due to them. There would be absolutely no way of knowing that the screws would cause pain in his leg until he started to play extended basketball.

The point is irrelevant what contract he was on. He was not and never has been injury prone nor had an "injury issue". Injury issue in what we are discussing is multiple occurring instances of Jrue being injured. That is 100% inaccurate. Outside of the two seasons he was battling his one major injury that required multiple surgeries he has never played less than 65 games. That's over 9 seasons of NBA games.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

So he doesn't play for precautionary reasons and that's considered healthy? Of course if you play 3/5 of a season it's far more likely to be "healthy".

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Yes. Of course. You aren't injured, they are slowly getting you back into the groove of playing elite level sports by not wanting to over tax your newly healed body. Solomon Hill was healthy and still played limited minutes and less games. This isn't rocket science.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Yes. Of course. You aren't injured, they are slowly getting you back into the groove of playing elite level sports by not wanting to over tax your newly healed body. Solomon Hill was healthy and still played limited minutes and less games. This isn't rocket science.

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Those games are missed due to injury. Recovery is apart of injury management. If Jrue was healthy he'd be playing. Limited mins or d league, but he'd be playing. If a player miss a large amount of games due to an injury you are injury prone regardless if it the same injury or it's injury management.

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Originally Posted by da ThRONe

If a player miss a large amount of games due to an injury you are injury prone regardless if it the same injury or it's injury management.

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No.

What, once? One bad injury and you're injury prone? That's a weird definition...

Does this fit?

Prone

/prōn/

adjective

1. likely to or liable to suffer from, do, or experience something, typically something regrettable or unwelcome.
"years of logging had left the mountains prone to mudslides"
synonyms: susceptible, vulnerable, subject, open, liable, given, predisposed, likely, disposed, inclined, apt; at risk of
"untreated wood is prone to rotting"

Or more direct

injury-prone
injury-prone
adj
often sustaining injuries

Is one injury considered often?

Jrue had a great season, but to be considered a star player you need to do it for multiple seasons. Before this past year it was back in 2012-13 when Jrue made the All Star team and looked like a future star. If he has the same type of season like I believe he will again this year then he may get more notice nationally. It wasn’t all that long ago that some thought the 76ers got over on us and shipped us damaged goods.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

No.

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lol

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Originally Posted by DaPelFromHell

Jrue had a great season, but to be considered a star player you need to do it for multiple seasons. Before this past year it was back in 2012-13 when Jrue made the All Star team and looked like a future star. If he has the same type of season like I believe he will again this year then he may get more notice nationally. It wasn’t all that long ago that some thought the 76ers got over on us and shipped us damaged goods.

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he was all-star damaged goods from Philly and last season was amazing and he was first team all D. I think once he started pointing at dudes he flipped a switch. I think the enabled switch is good to go in October and will hopefully go through the summer.

Just seen video of him Justin and Frank Jackson working out. Jrue got some hops. And Frank looking ready to go.

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Originally Posted by Cheaney

Just seen video of him Justin and Frank Jackson working out. Jrue got some hops. And Frank looking ready to go.

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Yeah, I love seeing Frank score on Jrue in that video. Might be the only time he scored on him lol


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