Team Vets Hold Meeting After Loss To OKC

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Originally Posted by 42

You cherry picked.

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Oh really? Enlighten me.

I merely stated that this team doesn't play any defense at all, which is Monty's forte. In fact, he forces the offense to play a snail's pace to allow his defense to set up and yet guys aren't doing what they are supposed on the floor, whether its the veterans or young players. Last season it wasn't the case on the defensive end of the floor. However, that defensive effort and mindset is lacking. Maybe the players aren't buying what he's selling right now. I'm not saying its his fault either. Just saying these guys aren't doing what they're being told to do for whatever reason. And the talent level stinks outside of Anderson.

This team is what it is, and that's just not very good. Especially without Gordon and Davis. Just take a look.

Greivis Vasquez, a lot of people talk about how great of a backup he would be, but his physical limitations are just too big. People talk about how slow he is, but people don't seem to talk about the fact that his handle is not that good. Honest question, put Vasquez on OKC. Who gets the minutes behind Westbrook, him or Maynor?

Roger Mason, I won't go as far as saying "oh this guy wouldn't even have a job if it weren't for the Hornets," but I will say that he probably wouldn't see the court if it weren't for the Hornets. Why is nobody talking about how he is only shooting 39% and 36% as the starter?

Al-Farouq Aminu, I like him, but offensively he just has not made the improvements you wanted to see from him. We play the second slowest pace in the league (slowest last season) and score only 11 fast break points per game which is 24th, the guy will just not exceed offensively if you don't move faster than that. He's another starter for us that wouldn't see the court for some better teams.

Ryan Anderson, the only player worth a damn.

Robin Lopez, is he worth the 5M option next year? I don't think so. He plays hard, and he seems like a nice guy, but he just isn't very good. Seems a step slower than the rest of the league, can't really get off the floor, weak offensive game.

This team just needs another makeover. I wouldn't be the least bit upset if coming into next season the only guys who are still on this team are Gordon, Davis, Anderson, Rivers, and Smith.

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Originally Posted by NemesisKING

did you ever see Ryan Bowen in a Hornets Advertisement.

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I beg to differ. This is a classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRrUI0BD9MI

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Originally Posted by AD23forMVP

This team is what it is, and that's just not very good. Especially without Gordon and Davis. Just take a look.

Greivis Vasquez, a lot of people talk about how great of a backup he would be, but his physical limitations are just too big. People talk about how slow he is, but people don't seem to talk about the fact that his handle is not that good. Honest question, put Vasquez on OKC. Who gets the minutes behind Westbrook, him or Maynor?

Roger Mason, I won't go as far as saying "oh this guy wouldn't even have a job if it weren't for the Hornets," but I will say that he probably wouldn't see the court if it weren't for the Hornets. Why is nobody talking about how he is only shooting 39% and 36% as the starter?

Al-Farouq Aminu, I like him, but offensively he just has not made the improvements you wanted to see from him. We play the second slowest pace in the league (slowest last season) and score only 11 fast break points per game which is 24th, the guy will just not exceed offensively if you don't move faster than that. He's another starter for us that wouldn't see the court for some better teams.

Ryan Anderson, the only player worth a damn.

Robin Lopez, is he worth the 5M option next year? I don't think so. He plays hard, and he seems like a nice guy, but he just isn't very good. Seems a step slower than the rest of the league, can't really get off the floor, weak offensive game.

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Honestly commish, I wouldn't even call Vasquez a good backup right now. He's been terrible overall this season.

I'll give Mason the benefit of the doubt because he was brought in to shoot 3's and he's provided that. He has no other role in this league and he's doing that role well. He was supposed to be a backup.

Lopez? Backup.

Aminu? Defensive specialist off the bench.

Everyone else? Role players.

Good memories lol

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

Honestly commish, I wouldn't even call Vasquez a good backup right now. He's been terrible overall this season.

I'll give Mason the benefit of the doubt because he was brought in to shoot 3's and he's provided that. He has no other role in this league and he's doing that role well. He was supposed to be a backup.

Lopez? Backup.

Aminu? Defensive specialist off the bench.

Everyone else? Role players.

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I'd agree with everything you just said.

I'm losing patience with Greivis. He puts up stats, seems like a great team guy, but he just doesn't get it done on the court. Like I said earlier, his foot speed and ball handling just isn't good enough to be a rotation PG. I can get over the defense thing I guess, there are a ton of horrific defenders in the league playing PG. But you just can't be that slow and not have atleast a good handle.

Lopez, yes he's a backup. My hope has always been that we are just waiting for AD to fill out and add muscle then we'll slide him over to the 5 and Anderson will slide into the starting 4 role. Making Lopez a backup. But a 5M average backup? No thanks.

Aminu? I just don't know with him. He's a mind changer. You think you know him, then he goes on a small run that makes you think he may actually have something. I made a post this morning in which I said the worst part of having Gordon and Davis out is that you can't properly scout your own team. What I mean by that is, the last four games that Gordon played and Aminu started, he averaged 14 points on 53% shooting. Some guys just play better with other guys on the floor, that could be the case with Aminu. Because if you could have Aminu averaging 14 points on 53% and pretty much all of his buckets come from fast breaks, Gordon finding him on cuts, etc would anyone be upset? I'd take it.

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

Oh really? Enlighten me.

I merely stated that this team doesn't play any defense at all, which is Monty's forte. In fact, he forces the offense to play a snail's pace to allow his defense to set up and yet guys aren't doing what they are supposed on the floor, whether its the veterans or young players. Last season it wasn't the case on the defensive end of the floor. However, that defensive effort and mindset is lacking. Maybe the players aren't buying what he's selling right now. I'm not saying its his fault either. Just saying these guys aren't doing what they're being told to do for whatever reason. And the talent level stinks outside of Anderson.

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How was the energy against the Clippers?

Low?

Were they lost then?

Maybe they rebelled like in Friday Night Lights, eh?

Or are they only lost sometimes?

Let's start really easy with this one.

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Originally Posted by 42

How was the energy against the Clippers?

Low?

Were they lost then?

Maybe they rebelled like in Friday Night Lights, eh?

Or are they only lost sometimes?

Let's start really easy with this one.

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They hit 15 out of 25 threes. That's 60%. Unreal shooting, right?

They didn't defend well that game either.

are we an inconsistent bad team that gets lucky wins, or or we an inconsistent good team that loses when we shouldn't?

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

They hit 15 out of 25 threes. That's 60%. Unreal shooting, right?

They didn't defend well that game either.

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well if Caron Butler didn't have a career night, we would have beaten them by 20 or so

Everyone seems to have a career night against the Hornets.

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

are we an inconsistent bad team that gets lucky wins, or or we an inconsistent good team that loses when we shouldn't?

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This season, definitely a bad team. I won't say they get lucky when they win, but their efforts on those wins are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by whoah whoah

I beg to differ. This is a classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRrUI0BD9MI

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I see what you did there, lol.

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

They hit 15 out of 25 threes. That's 60%. Unreal shooting, right?

They didn't defend well that game either.

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I really don't see a comment about your major point about Monty losing the team.

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

They hit 15 out of 25 threes. That's 60%. Unreal shooting, right?

They didn't defend well that game either.

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Did you even watch the game?

Just quoting you on spurtstalk (a forum I visit often)

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Probably because the team sucks and not many people care about the Hornets in the region. Heck, I haven't watched their last few games.

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The effort and energy was great in the Clippers game. The fact they hit their shots does not mean anything in regards to their energy.

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Originally Posted by Bee-Fense

Did you even watch the game?

Just quoting you on spurtstalk (a forum I visit often)



The effort and energy was great in the Clippers game. The fact they hit their shots does not mean anything in regards to their energy.

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How DARE you use facts!

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Originally Posted by nolaslim213

Would you not agree that most of the current, young players on this team should be "better players" next year after they get more experience? That's sort of how rebuilding with youth works... It requires patience, as Demps pointed out on draft night.

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Yes. That is why my opinion was on this season. Next season we will be returning players who are better than they were as well as (hopefully) picking up a key FA and a nice draft pick.

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Originally Posted by Bee-Fense

Did you even watch the game?

Just quoting you on spurtstalk (a forum I visit often)



The effort and energy was great in the Clippers game. The fact they hit their shots does not mean anything in regards to their energy.

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I did watch the game, but that was one victory in 10 games. I said the effort was inconsistent, not completely lacking. Big difference.

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

I did watch the game, but that was one victory in 10 games. I said the effort was inconsistent, not completely lacking. Big difference.

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You cite victories and shooting percentages as if they relate to effort. You've admitted to not watching games. How do you determine the effort over those games when effort is intangible? If the game is close, does that mean their effort was better? Not necessarily. The team could try as hard as they possibly can and get blown out.

I would say some players' energy and effort has been consistent and others inconsistent. I would say that is more indicative of the players and not the coach.

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Originally Posted by Hornets78

I did watch the game, but that was one victory in 10 games. I said the effort was inconsistent, not completely lacking. Big difference.

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So, sometimes lost, sometimes found?

Semi-amazing grace?

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Originally Posted by Bee-Fense

You cite victories and shooting percentages as if they relate to effort. You've admitted to not watching games. How do you determine the effort over those games when effort is intangible? If the game is close, does that mean their effort was better? Not necessarily. The team could try as hard as they possibly can and get blown out.

I would say some players' energy and effort has been consistent and others inconsistent. I would say that is more indicative of the players and not the coach.

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I haven't watched all the games lately but some games like the Clippers and Jazz and parts of others.

I've noticed that when things go bad, this team fizzles quickly. Is it because they tune out the coach? Not necessarily, but it does mean that he's not getting through to them enough. Its one thing if this team was playing competitive in their losses and playing defense, but that's not happening right now. Does it mean that the coach is losing the team. Not necessarily, but you have to wonder why they are so prone to getting blown out and why isn't the defensive effort as good as last season. I didn't expect wins and losses with Davis and Gordon out, but I also didn't expect the routine blowouts and a Monty coached team being the worst defensively.

Dell Demps and Monty need to have a team meeting to figure out how to upgrade the roster. Point blank and period. Find guys who first and foremost have the talent to play in the NBA. This a basketball team not a social engineering firm. Let things like coachability, attitude, etc be the difference between guys of equal ability or like ability. Roger Mason, Brian Roberts, and Lance Thomas should be let go and replaced with guys who will actually challenge Vasquez, Rivers, Aminu, and Miller to be better basketball players... they don't need lessons in civility, manners, and professionalism. These guys have parents, agents, etc, who should help with that and if not then they need to be let go anyway. Again this is a basketball team, not a debutante cotillion.

When CP3 and West were here, we were able to see what Monty could do with a little bit of talent - unless, of course, you are someone who believes CP3 ran that team. Monty was a rookie coach then. We never were allowed to see him progress as a coach with these depleted rosters. Last year's team had some legit NBA players. Jack, Kaman, Ariza, Landry, and even Belinelli were NBA players. They just would be backups on most teams, and we had them starting. The D-Leaguers we did have on the roster were on 10-day contracts except for maybe Dyson (who came at the end) and Thomas. The team we have now is trying to pass itself off as an NBA team with the exception of Anderson. If it's a coaching issue, then we should see a difference in some of the players who have left this team. Jack is still Jack. Kaman...still Kaman. Ariza is still Ariza. And so on... None of them had drastic improvements once leaving the Hornets. They're playing just like they did when they were here. You can put Roberts or Mason or Lopez and anyone else on Pop's team, and it would not make a difference. Kudos to Monty for getting the little he can out of this team. Give the man some talent, Dell!

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Originally Posted by DefensiveMind

Dell Demps and Monty need to have a team meeting to figure out how to upgrade the roster. Point blank and period. Find guys who first and foremost have the talent to play in the NBA. This a basketball team not a social engineering firm. Let things like coachability, attitude, etc be the difference between guys of equal ability or like ability. Roger Mason, Brian Roberts, and Lance Thomas should be let go and replaced with guys who will actually challenge Vasquez, Rivers, Aminu, and Miller to be better basketball players... they don't need lessons in civility, manners, and professionalism. These guys have parents, agents, etc, who should help with that and if not then they need to be let go anyway. Again this is a basketball team, not a debutante cotillion.

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we're hindered by Rashard Lewis' 13.7 million dollar buyout this year.. what do you expect them to do when you have no money and lackluster players to trade. Dell is good, but he cant rob every gm he's tries to.. once that money frees up, we'll have the ability to sign a big name player or a couple decent players to actually have a full roster of nba players, and not d-leaguers. This should be our last year of mediocre performances.. i hope

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Originally Posted by bojangles837

we're hindered by Rashard Lewis' 13.7 million dollar buyout this year.. what do you expect them to do when you have no money and lackluster players to trade. Dell is good, but he cant rob every gm he's tries to.. once that money frees up, we'll have the ability to sign a big name player or a couple decent players to actually have a full roster of nba players, and not d-leaguers. This should be our last year of mediocre performances.. i hope

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If I was talking about top end talent, then I wouldnt have made the reference to them challenging clear role players like Aminu, Vasquez, etc. We have too many guys on this roster who would not be in the LEAGUE if it wasnt for us. In a zero sum game, if there is non-NBA talent on our team then there is an excess somewhere. Thats where Dell needs to be.